RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,505
Posts: 5,511,364
Members: 25,136
Currently online: 461
Newest member: aprizan

TrekToday headlines

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 21 2009, 08:26 PM   #46
FordSVT
Vice Admiral
 
FordSVT's Avatar
 
Location: Atlantic Canada
Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation

Deckerd wrote: View Post
I have to say the casting of Firefly was exceptional. There are few casts I have encountered with so much talent.
Summer Glau is one of the worst actresses I've seen come along in recent memory, but I do enjoy Nathan Fillion's acting. He's got a natural quality, unlike Glau who seems to have taken acting lessons in a graveyard.
__________________
-FordSVT-
FordSVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2009, 01:46 AM   #47
The Borgified Corpse
Admiral
 
The Borgified Corpse's Avatar
 
Location: Ouch! Forgotten already? You were just down there 20 minutes ago.
Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation

Cartoonist wrote: View Post
Rii wrote: View Post
Cartoonist wrote: View Post
...Unless the lack of Asian people was eventually going to be explained. Maybe there was a genocide before the exodus from Earth.
Why would the genocidal culture seek to incorporate the cultural apparatus of their victims?
Two possibilities:

(1) They'd already incorporated Asian influences long before the genocide. There may have been peace for centuries before hatred flared, just as the Jews lived in Russia and Europe for centuries before the Pogroms and the Holocaust. At that point, there'd be no way to separate the Western influences from the Asian ones in their mixed culture. Current western cultures are a hodgepodge of influences from disparate peoples who used to be mortal enemies. You probably can't go a whole day without saying, eating or wearing things that were created by the British and other things that were created by the French, for instance.

(2) Westerners didn't dislike Asians, Western GOVERMENTS (that may or may not have been totalitarian by then) decided to eliminate Asians. So there'd be no reason for the average Westerner to want to reject Asian cultural influences.
Or maybe there was a plague that the Westerners were able to escape but the Chinese were not.
__________________
Kegg: "You're a Trekkie. The capacity to quibble over the minutiae of space opera films is your birthright."
The Borgified Corpse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2009, 01:48 AM   #48
Starbreaker
Fleet Admiral
 
Starbreaker's Avatar
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
View Starbreaker's Twitter Profile
Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation

Most confusing thread EVAR.
__________________
Currently Reading: The Martian by Andy Weir
Currently Watching: The Walking Dead, Doctor Who, CSI, Criminal Minds, NCIS, NCIS:NO, Law & Order: SVU, Stalker, American Horror Story, and Bones
Starbreaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2009, 03:53 AM   #49
cynical dreamer
Guest
 
Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation

"Talent imitates, genius steals"

"This has all happened before and will happen again"

There isn't a writer alive who hasn't borrowed from other writers.

"We all stand on the shoulders of giants."
  Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2009, 07:46 AM   #50
Ryan
Commodore
 
Location: Lincoln, NE
Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation

Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
Why, given their supposed dominance, not one Asian would happen at random to be part of this fairly randomly-assembled group of travelers always seemed to me to be a question that begged an explanation.
I dunno. It doesn't bother me too much. America has a certain cultural dominance and English is one of the most spoken second languages in the world but it wouldn't be odd if a person outside North America never visited the United States or knew any Americans.

I definitely would have loved to have seen the Chinese side of the Alliance but it's nothing worth freaking out over.
Ryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2009, 11:36 AM   #51
Ugly Sweater
Trekker4747
 
Ugly Sweater's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation

After screening several episodes where - apart from being space cowboys and quasi-anarchists - the cast of the show wear kimonos, carry paper parasols, and talk about making pau, I started to get more and more annoyed. But was I just being a jerk? What was so wrong with the array of East Asian symbols and decor on the set of Firefly? Was I preventing myself from enjoying a perfectly good TV show by being some sort of yellow fever watchdog?

Yes,
__________________
Just because it's futuristic doesn't mean it's practical.
Ugly Sweater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2009, 01:12 PM   #52
Dusty Ayres
Commodore
 
Location: ANS Yamato, Sector 5, Sol System
Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation

LaxScrutiny wrote: View Post
IMHO you can't appropriate a culture that's been put up for sale.

When a culture has been canned, commercialized and exported for sale abroad for decades, there's nothing to appropriate.

I think the criticism of appropriation is somewhat valid if you start taking some third world culture's folk music and then record it with white artists and try to copyright it and make millions off of it and never pay a cent to the original artists. But Japan and Bollywood for another example, they've marketed their cultures and I think the whole appropriation criticism is bull.
Try telling it to the writer of the piece, and she'll cut your tounge out verbally-these young people NEVER listen or understand, or do a general look-around.

I think Whedon has "appropriated" feminism and used a cheap version of it to offset his fetishes and soft core porn fantasies he keeps writing into his stories.
What fetish has he used? None that I can see; he hasen't even engaged in a foot fetish like Quentin Tarantino does in his movies, save for issue #7 of the Buffy comic book and an epsiode of Firefly. And soft core porno insinuations are a little off-base.

Venardhi wrote: View Post
Acting isn't exactly a particularly encouraged profession amongst the Asian-American population in my experience. Out of the dozen or so shows I've done, I've encountered 2 east-Asian actors, including at the auditions. If they're casting for the best actors without going out of their way to find Asians specifically, then it really isn't surprising to have a cast with so few Asians in it.
Casting call, anyone? Those are not hard to do; all you have to do is put an ad in the paper, and repeat as many times as nesscary.
Dusty Ayres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2009, 01:54 PM   #53
LaxScrutiny
Commodore
 
Location: Toronto, Canada
Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation

Dusty Ayres wrote: View Post
What fetish has he used? None that I can see; he hasen't even engaged in a foot fetish like Quentin Tarantino does in his movies, save for issue #7 of the Buffy comic book and an epsiode of Firefly. And soft core porno insinuations are a little off-base.
You've never seen a cute, petite, leather clad female beating up a big man on a Whedon show? Two really hot young femme girls in bed together? I must have messed up my PVR and been watching some other show. Sorry.
LaxScrutiny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2009, 03:22 PM   #54
Forbin
Admiral
 
Forbin's Avatar
 
Location: I said out, dammit!
Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation

FordSVT wrote: View Post
Deckerd wrote: View Post
I have to say the casting of Firefly was exceptional. There are few casts I have encountered with so much talent.
Summer Glau is one of the worst actresses I've seen come along in recent memory, but I do enjoy Nathan Fillion's acting. He's got a natural quality, unlike Glau who seems to have taken acting lessons in a graveyard.
Forbin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2009, 09:22 PM   #55
Venardhi
Vice Admiral
 
Venardhi's Avatar
 
Location: Constant transit
Send a message via AIM to Venardhi Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Venardhi
Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation

Dusty Ayres wrote: View Post
Venardhi wrote: View Post
Acting isn't exactly a particularly encouraged profession amongst the Asian-American population in my experience. Out of the dozen or so shows I've done, I've encountered 2 east-Asian actors, including at the auditions. If they're casting for the best actors without going out of their way to find Asians specifically, then it really isn't surprising to have a cast with so few Asians in it.
Casting call, anyone? Those are not hard to do; all you have to do is put an ad in the paper, and repeat as many times as nesscary.
My point is that obviously they could go out of their way to find asian actors for specific roles, but if they're looking for the best actors without limiting themselves to a specific nationality, then the likelihood of them picking an asian out of the herd is pretty unlikely just because they make up such a small percentage of the acting population.
__________________
"There is no reason why good cannot triumph as often as evil. The triumph of anything is a matter of organization. If there are such things as angels, I hope that they are organized along the lines of the Maffia." - Winston Niles Rumfoord.
Venardhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2009, 09:38 PM   #56
Mr. Adventure
Admiral
 
Mr. Adventure's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Adventure
Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation

I wonder if Simon and River Tam were intended to be Chinese characters at some point. The names sound right and the characters seem to work well with being Asian (unlike say Jayne or Book IMO).
Mr. Adventure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22 2009, 10:36 PM   #57
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "Don't blame me--I voted for Jaresh-Inyo!"
Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation

LaxScrutiny wrote: View Post
You've never seen a cute, petite, leather clad female beating up a big man on a Whedon show? Two really hot young femme girls in bed together?
I have, and I don't think he ever did that for sexual or pornographic intent.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23 2009, 02:06 PM   #58
FordSVT
Vice Admiral
 
FordSVT's Avatar
 
Location: Atlantic Canada
Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation

Forbin wrote: View Post
FordSVT wrote: View Post
Deckerd wrote: View Post
I have to say the casting of Firefly was exceptional. There are few casts I have encountered with so much talent.
Summer Glau is one of the worst actresses I've seen come along in recent memory, but I do enjoy Nathan Fillion's acting. He's got a natural quality, unlike Glau who seems to have taken acting lessons in a graveyard.
Which part were you having a hard time understanding?
__________________
-FordSVT-
FordSVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23 2009, 06:12 PM   #59
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation

FordSVT wrote: View Post
Forbin wrote: View Post
FordSVT wrote: View Post

Summer Glau is one of the worst actresses I've seen come along in recent memory, but I do enjoy Nathan Fillion's acting. He's got a natural quality, unlike Glau who seems to have taken acting lessons in a graveyard.
Which part were you having a hard time understanding?
Your taste, I'm guessing.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24 2009, 12:59 PM   #60
FordSVT
Vice Admiral
 
FordSVT's Avatar
 
Location: Atlantic Canada
Re: Joss Whedon and the blurry line between homage and appropriation

Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
FordSVT wrote: View Post
Forbin wrote: View Post

Which part were you having a hard time understanding?
Your taste, I'm guessing.
What's wrong with Nathan Fillion?
__________________
-FordSVT-
FordSVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
firefly, joss whedon

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.