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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Battlestar Galactica & Caprica

Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

 
 
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Old March 22 2009, 12:21 AM   #601
Brian
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Re: "Daybreak, Part II" Live Commentary

I don't have much to say on the Boomer-Baltar redemption/justice debate, except that in real life, sometimes good things happen to bad people. All evil-doers don't get their comeuppance. I am therefore fine with how the writers chose to conclude those arcs. Hell, if Baltar can still be standing in the general populace after New Caprica, anything is possible.

A couple of unrelated thoughts:

- When Adama was explaining to Laura what the Five were about to do, connecting in the water and putting together the resurrection tech and such, I so wanted him to say, "and a lot of other technobabble that I don't understand."

- I can buy the "higher power" and the head-people and all. But it was hard to swallow that nuKara was just an angel or head-person with a body or whatever. She had too much of a personal journey after her resurrection for that to make any sense. They could easily have provided a more plausible scenario without even any extra dialogue. When she put her hand in the water of Sam's vat, if they had flashed some scenes, like she was sharing knowledge with him like the others did, and thrown in some glowing crystalline shapes and Kara all in white... it would have been a tie to the TOS ship of lights (getting big points from fans), and in just a couple of flashes explained where her revived body and shiny new viper came from. Her disappearance at the end would then have been taken as her purpose was complete and she was finally allowed to move on.

- The sudden bohemian shift didn't make sense. These people have been all about preserving their culture and not forgetting. Then because Lee Adama gets a green thought up his butt, they all become cave people?

- The coda just didn't feel right. What did it add but 3 ounces of cutesy? We already knew the Galacticans landed on primeval Earth. Did putting a number of years on it add anything? Did saying God doesn't like to be called God add anything but some snark? Was a warning about AIs really necessary? No to all. It should have ended with the long shot on Adama.
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Old March 22 2009, 12:23 AM   #602
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Re: "Daybreak, Part II" Live Commentary

brian wrote: View Post
- When Adama was explaining to Laura what the Five were about to do, connecting in the water and putting together the resurrection tech and such, I so wanted him to say, "and a lot of other technobabble that I don't understand."
Yeah, I wondered if Moore had to fight the temptation.
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Old March 22 2009, 12:27 AM   #603
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Re: "Daybreak, Part II" Live Commentary

brian wrote: View Post
The sudden bohemian shift didn't make sense. These people have been all about preserving their culture and not forgetting. Then because Lee Adama gets a green thought up his butt, they all become cave people?
I think the series has show this dynamic slowly changing, especially after Lee's "gang" comments during Baltar's trial in Crossroads. We see the government undergoing a radical change in the wake of Gaeta and Zarek's coup. Power dynamics in the fleet are changing (Baltar's cult can control the masses in Dogsville, Adama's marines can't). It was perhaps a bit sudden, but it's hard to say that with certainty. After all, these characters have been trying to preserve their way of life because it's all they have left. Finding them smack dab in the middle of a proverbial Garden of Eden changes all that--suddenly they have something.
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Old March 22 2009, 12:28 AM   #604
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Re: "Daybreak, Part II" Live Commentary

brian wrote: View Post
Did saying God doesn't like to be called God add anything but some snark?
I thought it added ambiguity. Enough to suggest that, perhaps, "God" wasn't God at all, but your interpretation may vary. But it leaves enough room in the text for different interpretations, which I enjoy.
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Old March 22 2009, 12:32 AM   #605
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Re: "Daybreak, Part II" Live Commentary

Hirogen Alpha wrote: View Post
brian wrote: View Post
The sudden bohemian shift didn't make sense. These people have been all about preserving their culture and not forgetting. Then because Lee Adama gets a green thought up his butt, they all become cave people?
I think the series has show this dynamic slowly changing, especially after Lee's "gang" comments during Baltar's trial in Crossroads. We see the government undergoing a radical change in the wake of Gaeta and Zarek's coup. Power dynamics in the fleet are changing (Baltar's cult can control the masses in Dogsville, Adama's marines can't). It was perhaps a bit sudden, but it's hard to say that with certainty. After all, these characters have been trying to preserve their way of life because it's all they have left. Finding them smack dab in the middle of a proverbial Garden of Eden changes all that--suddenly they have something.
Also how many of the survivors had anything to preserve? For many of them going from the cramped confines of the ship to a wide open "Garden of Eden" and being told "okay, it's yours stake your claim" had to be a step up in their eyes.
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Old March 22 2009, 01:48 AM   #606
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Re: "Daybreak, Part II" Live Commentary

Hirogen Alpha wrote: View Post
brian wrote: View Post
The sudden bohemian shift didn't make sense. These people have been all about preserving their culture and not forgetting. Then because Lee Adama gets a green thought up his butt, they all become cave people?
I think the series has show this dynamic slowly changing, especially after Lee's "gang" comments during Baltar's trial in Crossroads. We see the government undergoing a radical change in the wake of Gaeta and Zarek's coup. Power dynamics in the fleet are changing (Baltar's cult can control the masses in Dogsville, Adama's marines can't). It was perhaps a bit sudden, but it's hard to say that with certainty. After all, these characters have been trying to preserve their way of life because it's all they have left. Finding them smack dab in the middle of a proverbial Garden of Eden changes all that--suddenly they have something.
I'm hoping some of this stuff we'll see more of in the extended DVD episodes.
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Old March 22 2009, 01:59 AM   #607
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Re: "Daybreak, Part II" Live Commentary

It's said that "supplies" are divided equally among the settlements. Other than getting rid of the capital ships, we don't see anyone burning their clothes, destroying Raptors, or any other Prime-Directive-like move to immediately blend in with the natives and leave no trace. I think it's likely the adult survivors of the fleet maintained an existence and culture somewhere around the level of 18th century western settlers for the rest of their lives, though those lives may not have been long.

If you want the darkest possible fate, the colonists may have been overrun and killed by the natives, and any children including Hera were kidnapped and forcibly assimilated into native groups, not unlike Mary McDonnell's character in Dances With Wolves.
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Old March 22 2009, 02:05 AM   #608
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Re: "Daybreak, Part II" Live Commentary

[QUOTE

I think a more likely and realistic scenario would have been for a few ships to have landed somewhere on Earth and decide to live out of the ship and try to build something.[/QUOTE]

The fleet that went into the sun didn't look especially large. I figured that all the ships capable of landing did so and would be broken up for their components and metal. Only the larger ships took the plunge.
And all those pieces of the landed ships would be so much dust after 150,000 years anyway.
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Old March 22 2009, 02:31 AM   #609
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Re: "Daybreak, Part II" Live Commentary

brian wrote: View Post
I don't have much to say on the Boomer-Baltar redemption/justice deb

- The sudden bohemian shift didn't make sense. These people have been all about preserving their culture and not forgetting. Then because Lee Adama gets a green thought up his butt, they all become cave people?
Well the series has built upon this notion of having to redefine culture in the face of destruction. Throughout the journey, the Colonials have fought hard to hold on to their previous lives; the Quorum, the laws, the Colonial designations, and the technology. Slowly but surely Lee realized this and the "baggage" that came with it. So did the others, and the Cylons.

But in order for birth to exist, so must death which was part of Baltar's speech in the CIC. This was the death of their culture so that a new one could be born. Perhaps, even a better one where there was no cyclical violence.

That's why Kara Thrace was "the harbinger of death who would lead humanity to its end." She brought them to "Earth," the end of their journey, where Colonial and Cylon culture finally died.
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Old March 22 2009, 03:47 AM   #610
Dorian Thompson
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Re: "Daybreak, Part II" Live Commentary

I honestly think Baltar paid his price. It's not like he's going to do it again. He repented, he never did anything intentionally.
Ahhhh, but he did do one thing intentionally, sidious. Everybody is forgetting about Baltar giving Gina the nuke that she detonated on Cloud Nine. She was psychologically unstable and Baltar knew it. He didn't give her defense codes trying to get some tail from her. He gave her a weapon. What did he think she was going to do with it? He is equally as culpable as Gina in the murder of all the residents on Cloud Nine. I know I can't expect justice to be meted out in the proportion I'd like because I didn't write the the story, but I agree with Darth Pipes that Baltar deserved more retribution than he got. If Baltar was so stupid that he believed she never detonate he should have been executed for criminal stupidity. Peace treaty or no, he's still guilty of the lives cost by the nuke. To the hog pen with him. Weasel stew for porky.

Remarkably few viewers are troubled by this as you are, so you'd do well to entertain the possibility that the story isn't entirely subject to one cut-and-dried interpretation in the way that you insist.
He'd "do well" to entertain the possibility? He's expressing an opinion about how he wishes it had gone so he'd have found it a more compelling ending. Quit clucking at him, SP.

Bill actually said, "You know I don't have much time left, son." He may have been dying as well after all the pill and alcohol consumption plus the stress. He is clearly in terrible shape if you compare him to the miniseries.
That's a good obervation, sidious. I'd assumed he meant he didn't have time because he was worried that Laura's death was imminent and he wanted to show her that place and spend what few hours she had left together with her. I didn't think Bill was talking about his own imminent death. Still, even if he was, I find it odd considering the two characters' history that he wouldn't want a final goodbye with his son. Oh well. RDM writes it his way. C'est la vie. He handled the Starbuck disappearance well.
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