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Enterprise The final frontier has a new beginning in this forum!

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Old March 19 2009, 04:00 PM   #1
KimMH
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Spoiler? who here has read the good that men do?

I'm about 1/4 way through the Mangels/Martin book in which Trip is revealed to have not actually died in the way TATV indicates. Any opinions on the book from people who've read it? I don't mind spoilers myself - you can tell me!
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Old March 19 2009, 04:15 PM   #2
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Re: Spoiler? who here has read the good that men do?

I liked it. It was far from brilliant, but it was fun. Nice little peace of damage control.

Enjoy the rest of the book!
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Old March 19 2009, 04:20 PM   #3
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Re: Spoiler? who here has read the good that men do?

I really liked it. It was an interesting way to "unkill Trip," as Margaret Clark, editor of the Enterprise novels, put it when she contacted Paramount to get the OK to reverse the insult that was This Ain't The Valentine. And she says that she made the call even before the NOT.DEAD. Revolution.

As an aside, I had Connor autograph the page where we got the "not dead" Easter egg in the book.
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Old March 19 2009, 04:24 PM   #4
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Re: Spoiler? who here has read the good that men do?

JiNX-01 wrote: View Post
As an aside, I had Connor autograph the page where we got the "not dead" Easter egg in the book.
That's cool! I'm curious, what did Connor say about the fact that Trek Lit resurrected Trip? Surely, someone asked for his comment.
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Old March 19 2009, 04:40 PM   #5
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Re: Spoiler? who here has read the good that men do?

I really like this book. I was so glad Margaret and the authors spoke up about how unhappy they were about the finale and Margaret asked Paramount's permission to change things before the book was written.I really thought it was clever how they decided to unkill Trip. I've read it several times.It's my favorite Enterprise novel besides the Expanse by J.m.Dillard.
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Old March 19 2009, 04:53 PM   #6
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Re: Spoiler? who here has read the good that men do?

oldstredshrtevr wrote: View Post
I'm about 1/4 way through the Mangels/Martin book in which Trip is revealed to have not actually died in the way TATV indicates. Any opinions on the book from people who've read it? I don't mind spoilers myself - you can tell me!
The Good: I found it to be a nice end to Enterprise as apossed to how These Are The Voyages ended. A good plot of how and why Trip 'died' the taster that the Earth-Romulan war is not far off, and it even continues with the whole Trip-T'pol thing.

The Bad: That it included jake and nog (yes i know they needed to be in it for the discovery, but still).
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Old March 19 2009, 05:07 PM   #7
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Re: Spoiler? who here has read the good that men do?

I read it and liked it very much.

Glad that the TATV crap has been undone.

Enjoy the book and those that follow.
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Old March 19 2009, 08:38 PM   #8
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Re: Spoiler? who here has read the good that men do?

Mach5 wrote: View Post
JiNX-01 wrote: View Post
As an aside, I had Connor autograph the page where we got the "not dead" Easter egg in the book.
That's cool! I'm curious, what did Connor say about the fact that Trek Lit resurrected Trip? Surely, someone asked for his comment.
LOL what is the easter egg? What happens.

I liked it, though it's not perfect. I'm trying to get into Kobyashi Maru but it is hard. I mean he almost lost me at the prologue using all thos Klingon words, makes it difficult to read.... then the heavy handed exposition in the first scene... but I'm trying. As a writer, exposition sucks to write, and it also sucks to read. My philosophy is: avoid it whenever possible. Even if it's not possible, avoid it anyway. If your story is good the readerwill figure it out.
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Old March 20 2009, 04:29 AM   #9
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Re: Spoiler? who here has read the good that men do?

I really thought it was subpar. Not only was the writing juvenile, but most of the characters seemed like clownish versions of themselves.
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Old March 20 2009, 12:14 PM   #10
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Re: Spoiler? who here has read the good that men do?

commodore64 wrote: View Post
I really thought it was subpar. Not only was the writing juvenile, but most of the characters seemed like clownish versions of themselves.
You already said that like a gazillion times. How about some elaborating? You of all people know how to speak your mind, IIRC.
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Old March 20 2009, 02:24 PM   #11
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Re: Spoiler? who here has read the good that men do?

Mach5 wrote: View Post
JiNX-01 wrote: View Post
As an aside, I had Connor autograph the page where we got the "not dead" Easter egg in the book.
That's cool! I'm curious, what did Connor say about the fact that Trek Lit resurrected Trip? Surely, someone asked for his comment.
I asked if he was aware of it. IIRC, he said Margaret Clark had a chance to talk to him about it (Shore Leave, 2006?). I don't believe he has read it. He really is OK with having been "killed off."

When I get home to my scanner/printer, I'll scan and post the page.
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Old March 20 2009, 04:05 PM   #12
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Re: Spoiler? who here has read the good that men do?

Well I finished the book and I really appreciate all your input! It wasn't the best TrekLit I've ever read - been at it since 1982 - but quite passable and where it counts - it undoes the damage of TATV. I am interested in following Trip on his further adventures and am also now very interested in some Andor-centric lit - esps the Aenar.

I'd love Greg Cox to do it - his work on The Eugenics Wars is fantastic and he is a writer worthy of the charge! And if you're interested in more info about the Augments it's an excellent supplement!

I too was a little miffed about Jake and Nog horning into the book but recognized the value of presenting it as a mystery to be solved centuries in the future - and I liked both the boys - they reminded me on DS9 how conflicted young men can be - they want to be brave and independent and they want ther moogies, too. Reminded me of my own.
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Old March 20 2009, 04:22 PM   #13
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Re: Spoiler? who here has read the good that men do?

good book,loved the way it trashed and even made fun of tatv.
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Old March 21 2009, 03:18 PM   #14
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Re: Spoiler? who here has read the good that men do?

oldstredshrtevr wrote: View Post
I am interested in following Trip on his further adventures and am also now very interested in some Andor-centric lit - esps the Aenar.
Kobyashi Maru is book 2. I'm still reading it so I don't have much of an opinion.
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Old March 21 2009, 05:03 PM   #15
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Re: Spoiler? who here has read the good that men do?

Mach5 wrote: View Post
commodore64 wrote: View Post
I really thought it was subpar. Not only was the writing juvenile, but most of the characters seemed like clownish versions of themselves.
You already said that like a gazillion times. How about some elaborating? You of all people know how to speak your mind, IIRC.
Sure.

The writing is juvenile, meaning I think the writer might be better at comic books. The actual patterns aren't terribly interesting, he uses simple words to convey his feelings and has done this in other books as well. I wonder if the target reader was sixth grade. What do I mean by better at comic book writing? His idea to keep Trip alive is interesting, but that's about it. I like books that go beyond just "interesting idea."

The characters except Trip seemed like alternate versions of themselves.

Archer seemed confused and indecisive the entire book. Archer is one thing: decisive. He has lots of bad qualities that could be highlighted: broodish, moody, proud, impulsive, sometimes dark, martyr-like, etc. He's also not the type of guy to sit back. And in this book, he does that a lot. I don't think the writer had a good beat on his character. I think when writing it's important to like and treat all the characters with love.

T'Pol also seemed like an emotional mess. Now, the writer himself indicated I didn't like season 3 T'Pol -- that's not true. I think season 3 T'Pol was a character in transition. And yet, season 4 showed the end of that transition and for the most part, TATV did as well. T'Pol may be occasionally emotional or have emotions, but she's not a mess. I think the writer needs to treat characters with the love they deserve, not sacrifice characters to show love.

I liked the characters for the most part as they appeared on the television show and like books that capture that essence. For example, "What Price is Honor" I think is probably the best at this. I'm hard on Enterprise books, mostly because I think they have great material to work with and deliver such terrible results.
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