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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old March 18 2009, 01:11 AM   #31
shipfisher
Commander
 
Re: Regenerative Shields

Thanks Cary. My simplistic understanding of chem battery performance has been given a boost.

Some great "fleshing out" of various references to shield operation and performance JNG. I always appreciate canon input on trek tech and tend to forget much in the way of detail in the shows I have watched, especially a long while back.
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Old March 18 2009, 04:08 AM   #32
kent
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Re: Regenerative Shields

Timo wrote: View Post
This would certainly be suggested by the two facts that a) continuous enemy fire reduces the percentages at a steady rate, not an accelerating one and b) the severity of hull damage suffered in shields-up hits is seemingly independent of the percentages.

It's only when shields "collapse", as in ST6, that hits suddenly begin to pierce the hull unopposed. Powerful hits against minimal shields collapse the shields first and only then hit the ship in e.g. "Q Who?". I don't recall any blatant counterexamples at the moment...

Apparently, it's very difficult to damage the shields, that is, to do damage to the shield machinery. Rather, one only manages to drain the shields, but if firing ceases, the shields tend to recharge fairly quickly if there is power available. Thus, "regenerative" might be a general description of all Starfleet shields as they have behaved like this ever since TOS. Or then the same evidence could be used to support the argument that "regenerative" must refer to something else than the simple ubiquitous ability to regenerate, in which case the analogy to regenerative brakes begins to sound pretty good.

Timo Saloniemi


i agree with your explanation to a point I would say.

You're right that with each hit from enemy fire weakens the shield "recharge" rate depending on the amount of enemy fire incoming.

Here is my proposal for the difference between standard "rechargable" shields and "regenerative shields".

Recharchable shields simply means that, as always, the shield generators themselves recharge if enough power is available, or if the incoming energy from the weapons don't exceed the ratio of recharge/incoming fire. The recharging capability happens from the existing fusion, M/AM warp reaction, and eps tap combo's, so it's using the "intra-net" of energy creation to recharge.

ReGENERATIVE shields have the same idea behind them, but operate differently. Instead of taking incoming fire and using a recharge/uncoming fire ratio, and instead of using the existing intra-net of power/energy created by the ship, the shield generators and shield grids absoarb incoming fire using the radiation to directly charge the shield generators. This has the effect of regenerating the shields directly, so really it's incoming energy, then the energy is converted through the shield generators, and redirected to the shield grid to strengthen shields.

In the case of regenerative shield technology, instead of the generators operating with the ratio of recharge/incoming fire, they operate on a ratio of regenerate/incoming fire/bleed off. Meaning, incoming fire recharges then regenerates the shields directly, but too much incoming fire reduces the efficiency of the shield regeneration because the shield grid has to be used to bleed off excess energy/radiation. Because of that, the entire shield grid (or grids) aren't being totally regenerated, and the more incoming fire the less regeneration happens until the regenerate/incoming fire/bleed off ratio works in your enemies favor. Also, absorbing too much incoming fire and converting it runs the risk of overloading the EPS taps, then consequently much more important systems.

To me, that's the difference between standard rechargable shield technology, and the newer regenerative shielding technology. The regenerating ability is simply taking the older rechargable tech to the next step while still incorporating the original concept. Hey, it's better than creating an entirely new concept right?
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Old March 19 2009, 09:23 PM   #33
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Regenerative Shields

Well has to be kept in mind that, in actual engineering, "regenerative" is almost always used in the context of recapturing waste energy and diverting it to a useful purpose. Regenerative cooling in rocket engines, for example, pumps the actual rocket propellant through the nozzle as a coolant before pumping that heated coolant into the combustion chamber, now at slightly higher temperature and pressure to (in some cases) get more thrust from the engine overall. In the case of regenerative shields, this should produce a deflector system that is just about impossible to overload and almost never looses strength except from constant prolonged punishment.

That being said, the Enterprise-E most likely does not have regenerative shielding; the prototype Prometheus class had it, which makes the technology basically irrelevant since the USS Power Ranger is unlikely to be mass produced and is therefore a throwaway design.
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Old March 19 2009, 09:52 PM   #34
Plecostomus
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Re: Regenerative Shields

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
Well has to be kept in mind that, in actual engineering, "regenerative" is almost always used in the context of recapturing waste energy and diverting it to a useful purpose. Regenerative cooling in rocket engines, for example, pumps the actual rocket propellant through the nozzle as a coolant before pumping that heated coolant into the combustion chamber, now at slightly higher temperature and pressure to (in some cases) get more thrust from the engine overall. In the case of regenerative shields, this should produce a deflector system that is just about impossible to overload and almost never looses strength except from constant prolonged punishment.
One has to wonder if they make it to the field at all given the Romulans most likely made copies of the database.
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Old March 21 2009, 04:40 PM   #35
Manticore
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Re: Regenerative Shields

Since we saw one during Endgame, then at least Prometheus herself did.
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Old March 22 2009, 05:46 AM   #36
Captan_Picard
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Re: Regenerative Shields

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
Nobody has ever explained what regenerative shields are supposed to do, though one theory floating around is that the shield generators borrow from replicator technology and "regenerate" themselves when damaged; OTOH, this presumes that the reason shields loose power when taking damage is that the shield generators themselves become damaged, and that doesn't seem to fit IMO.

Then I'm looking over some old TMP blueprints and finding that the deflector systems on the Enterprise apparently bare the entire load of enemy weapons energy--to the point of overloading drastically--until that energy can be re-radiated back into space away from the ship. In a way you might think of this as a kind of ablative lightning rod that captures and then dissipates any energy striking the ship, and is good enough that even the kinetic energy of projectile weapons can be deflected elsewhere.

So what if reintegrative shields are similar to, say, regenerative brakes? It's a new shield system that, instead of re-radiating that energy out into space, actually captures incoming weapon energy and stores it in a capacitor for use by, say, phaser banks or structural integrity or some such? Not that this would necessarily make the shields more effective (it clearly doesn't) but it might make the ship itself more efficient by reducing the load on the fusion reactors and other power systems normally used in combat.

Thoughts?

Regular Sheilds will regenerate only when one directs power from a new sourse and effects repairs.

Regenerative Sheild technology barrows off a device which autmaticually can reconfigure the sheilds, divert power from key select non essentual systems and effect a few light repairs to the sheild emmiters.

That is Regenerative sheilds.

It can also reproduce small amounts of energy..

Other abilities and these depend on the model being used by the ship...
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Old March 22 2009, 04:49 PM   #37
Deks
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Re: Regenerative Shields

Regular Shields will regenerate only when one directs power from a new source and effects repairs.

Regenerative Shield technology barrows off a device which automatically can reconfigure the shields, divert power from key select non essential systems and effect a few light repairs to the shield emitters.

That is Regenerative shields.

It can also reproduce small amounts of energy..

Other abilities and these depend on the model being used by the ship...
corrected typos ...



But I also largely agree with this statement.
I would also like to add that it's possible how the Prometheus is utilizing incoming weapons fire as a way to replenish the shields on a continuous basis (although this type of technological use was never really stated on screen to begin with ... perhaps post Nemesis).
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Old May 22 2009, 06:37 PM   #38
N1N
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Re: Regenerative Shields

Sorry if im wrong but arent Regenerative shields an advanced deflector shield system used by the Borg and other species. The basic principle of regenerative shielding was to quickly analyze an attacking weapon's frequency and then modulate shield frequency to increase damage mitigation without depleting shield energy.
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Old May 22 2009, 08:20 PM   #39
JNG
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Re: Regenerative Shields

N1N wrote: View Post
Sorry if im wrong but arent Regenerative shields an advanced deflector shield system used by the Borg and other species. The basic principle of regenerative shielding was to quickly analyze an attacking weapon's frequency and then modulate shield frequency to increase damage mitigation without depleting shield energy.
It does seem as if the Borg are using some sort of high-specificity interferometric system functioning similarly to what you described, but I can't see any particular reason why a system with such operating principles would be tagged as "regenerative." I think Mr. Brown's above comparison to regenerative braking probably represents a functioning principle which would sensibly deserve the tag.
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Old May 22 2009, 11:43 PM   #40
N1N
Ensign
 
Re: Regenerative Shields

Well just to let you know where i got my info from

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Regenerative_shield

If this wrong or right?
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Old May 23 2009, 12:52 AM   #41
JNG
Chief of Staff, Starfleet Command
 
Re: Regenerative Shields

^

It says "citation needed" for that part of the wiki article, so if you've got one, go ahead and add it in. I think it's said that for a while, so I am starting to suspect there is no canonical reference to that principle as regenerative shielding and that this represents mere speculation.

I don't really think of the Borg having shields that weaken and then regenerate. In their early appearance, I'm not sure they used shields per se at all on the ships (later, ST:Voyager seems to have them using shields more similar to what we're used to, though this may have been some sort of conversational shorthand). The whatever-shielding they use on drones doesn't seem to kick in until they have a read on the weapon, and afterward seems to be proof against that weapon, or so tough to batter through that Our Heroes don't typically view it as an option.

Last edited by JNG; May 23 2009 at 11:54 AM.
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