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Old March 19 2009, 04:33 AM   #16
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: My views on the Borg Queen

Personally, I always saw the Queen as something of an "escape valve" for all the mental/emotional sludge that must be coursing around the Collective, with so many enslaved drones. In other words, actually not that far off from the Armus concept, except that instead of being able to slough that off forever, there must constantly be such a vent available or else the Collective would implode under its own neural waste.

This, to me, explains the Queen's highly erratic and emotional behavior.

Just my own personal theory.
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Old March 19 2009, 06:05 AM   #17
Temis the Vorta
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Re: My views on the Borg Queen

The Borg Queen seemed petty, and way too catty.
Yeah that was the core problem - trying to sex her up and make it seem like she was chasing Data and then Seven. Janeway and BQ were having a big ole lesbian catfight over Seven before long. Poor Borg! They got treated with zero respect.

I guess it's possible that the BQ was petty because she was spoiled, but who wants to see a show about a spoiled brat cyborg? It just drags the whole species down.

Plus, let's face it, the lesbian catfight was about ratings, not about any sort of logical approach for the Borg. The whole thing was sleazy and tacky.
Then the Borg Queen was brought in, and now you had someone to trick and dance your way out of the mess.
Yep - the BQ was a liability for the Borg, so why did they bother with any queen much less a sleazy slutty bisexual spoiled brat princess for a queen? The only possible answer is: ratings.
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Old March 19 2009, 06:46 AM   #18
Praetor
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Re: My views on the Borg Queen

I agree generally with the OP - in fact I've long subscribed to my own version of this theory too, not too dissimilar from what Nerys Ghemor suggests above - an 'escape valve' for the emotions of all of the drones. 'Collective individuality' all rolled up in one body, if you will. It may not be what the writers intended but it works, I think.

I do also agree with the sentiment that the reason that she is generally credited for castrating the Borg is that the writers tried too hard to give her a 'personality.' Particularly on 'Voyager.' Or, contrarily, perhaps they slipped too easily into letting her be a mustache-twirler. I'm thinking particuarly of the way she behaved in 'Unimatrix Zero.'

"Off with their heads!"

Not verbatim, but close enough. Borg Queen, not Queen of Hearts.

But I think the notion of the Queen's personality as a manifestation of the personality of the collective as essentially a spoiled little girl who's used to getting what she wants is as good, plausible retcon explanation as any, and helps me ignore those few cringe-worthy moments.
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Old March 19 2009, 07:09 AM   #19
Sci
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Re: My views on the Borg Queen

Tiberius, you have some very well-thought out ideas.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the Queen and the nature of the Borg Collective after you read David Mack's Star Trek: Destiny trilogy.
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Old March 19 2009, 09:06 AM   #20
Myasishchev
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Re: My views on the Borg Queen

I think Tiberius is right on how we should view how the Queen works in universe.

But taking a step back, and not to overcook the analogy, my consciousness, arising from neurons, does not take the form of a single lead neuron which wants to screw things.

The Borg Queen concept would have worked better as the consciousness of the Collective itself, without the mediator of a drone (why always female?) anointed as order-bringer, over and above the rest of the drones. Logically, the Collective can speak through any drone with a mouth, but its essence is the interaction between drone minds. Technically speaking, the Borg Collective is a program running at a level of higher implementation than the individual consciousnesses of the drones.

And presenting such a mind as ultimately human in scope was so shockingly missing the point that I find it hard to believe that any thought was given to it in the first place. The advent of the Borg Queen in the middle of First Contact was like having V'Ger turn out to be Norman from I, Mudd, out for the revenge for having his head blown up.

The more I think about it, though, the more I come to believe the Borg were undermined as far back as Best of Both Worlds--by incessantly demonizing them, by showing their way of life as nothing but rape and exploitation with nothing more to show for it than some cubes and (eventually) a horny greasy bald woman, the Borg became little more (indeed, a litle less) than Space Zombies in concept and in execution. Any interest I had dissipated when it became clear there was no longer, if there ever was, any ideological and philosophical argument between the Borg and the Federation, but only mere animal survival.

Yet I picked up Destiny. Go figure. I've even almost finished it. The Caeliar were cool.
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Old March 19 2009, 11:03 AM   #21
Tiberius
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Re: My views on the Borg Queen

Sci wrote: View Post
Tiberius, you have some very well-thought out ideas.
Thanks! I'm glad so many people here like my viewpoint.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the Queen and the nature of the Borg Collective after you read David Mack's Star Trek: Destiny trilogy.
Never read it.
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Old March 19 2009, 11:19 AM   #22
Tiberius
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Re: My views on the Borg Queen

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
But taking a step back, and not to overcook the analogy, my consciousness, arising from neurons, does not take the form of a single lead neuron which wants to screw things.
Agreed. But in my model, this is not how the Queen works. The Queen is not just another drone selected by the Collective to speak for the Collective. The queen IS the Collective speaking through a puppet.

It is as though all the neurons in your brain worked together and formed a single mind, and this mind took control of a body (which is exactly what your mind has done).


The Borg Queen concept would have worked better as the consciousness of the Collective itself, without the mediator of a drone (why always female?) anointed as order-bringer, over and above the rest of the drones.
The body we saw used by the queen was just a puppet. It wasn't a "drone" in the sense as Seven of Nine was a drone. The mind controlling this puppet WAS the Collective itself. The Collective is an individual, a single vast mind spread throughout all the drones. And apparently, it identifies as a female, given the type of body it chooses to serve as puppet....
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Old March 19 2009, 04:06 PM   #23
Sci
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Re: My views on the Borg Queen

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
Tiberius, you have some very well-thought out ideas.
Thanks! I'm glad so many people here like my viewpoint.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the Queen and the nature of the Borg Collective after you read David Mack's Star Trek: Destiny trilogy.
Never read it.
I'd highly recommend it. It's not inconsistent with the model you propose, either, but it does add new elements to how we understand the Collective to work. Oh, and it's also a really good, really well-written story.
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