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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

View Poll Results: Which Borg incarnation is freakier? Series or First Contact?
The seven seasons of TNG 20 45.45%
First Contact 14 31.82%
Both freaked me out equally! 9 20.45%
Neither one freaked me out 1 2.27%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 17 2009, 02:48 AM   #16
RobertScorpio
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Re: Which Borg incarnation is freakier? Series or First Contact?

Jeyl wrote: View Post
TNG Series without a doubt.

I think they took the "As long as they don't consider you a threat" ploy to be over played and too convenient. In the Episode Q Who, Riker makes the assumption that the Borg don't see them as a threat until Data says that it's because the drones are using their combined power to repair their ship. I think the 'regeneration' idea should have stayed rather then being a 'threat' as the #1 rule. The Borg shouldn't care if you're a threat or not, they should just assimilate you!

And yes, the Queen did ruin it what the series presented to be such a great idea. No single leader who can make mistakes, just the combined whole. Well now they have a single leader and she makes more mistakes than Wille Coyote.
Ummm..well said!!

Rob
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Old March 17 2009, 03:08 AM   #17
Stag
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Re: Which Borg incarnation is freakier? Series or First Contact?

I remember watching 'Q Who" and getting on the phone with my friend Angel and freaking out about how f'ng scary the Borg were and how great an enemy/alien they were.

Since then, or maybe since BOBW, they turned them into a bunch of candy asses.
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Old March 17 2009, 04:31 AM   #18
RobertScorpio
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Re: Which Borg incarnation is freakier? Series or First Contact?

Stag wrote: View Post
I remember watching 'Q Who" and getting on the phone with my friend Angel and freaking out about how f'ng scary the Borg were and how great an enemy/alien they were.

Since then, or maybe since BOBW, they turned them into a bunch of candy asses.
I totally agree.. I saw the Borg as Zombies..coming after you. In fact, at the start, when their ship was just slow but kept coming? Reminded me of that ditzy blond in the first NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD (she is the Enterprise in this analog)..she can run and run, then she looks back and you see the Living Dead goul way back there, barely able to walk, but can smell her fresh blood thus keeps coming for her.....

Then they creat the Queen (and before that the idiot LORE episode) and they just crapped all over the Borg..

Rob
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Old March 17 2009, 05:48 AM   #19
Gary7
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Re: Which Borg incarnation is freakier? Series or First Contact?

I also support the series perspective as being the most powerful. I can't agree more that introducing a Borg queen was contradictory to the whole principle upon which the Borg are based--an anonymous collective. There is NO NEED for a queen. It makes no sense. The collective mind is what drives the Borg. And that is what is so alien. So formidable. So deadly. As Picard said, "You can't reason with the Borg." At least not until their existence is threatened, as with species 8472.

So yes... FC started it and Voyager propagated it... this "violation" to Borg life. The queen. Tragic defacement of a great idea.
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Old March 17 2009, 06:28 AM   #20
swaaye
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Re: Which Borg incarnation is freakier? Series or First Contact?

Yup, the best of the borg was the TNG series.

FC was the beginning of the end and VOY really nailed that coffin shut.
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Old March 17 2009, 10:23 AM   #21
Kirk1980
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Re: Which Borg incarnation is freakier? Series or First Contact?

There's only really one way to redeem the Borg Queen...that is, if it had been stated that she was an experiment to see why humans (with usually single leaders) were able to beat their ass at Wolf 359.

Maybe it was just something they considered, tried out and then dropped.

That would have worked for me.

But yes, THE SERIES BORG rocked. Especially with how well Q built them up.
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Old March 17 2009, 03:11 PM   #22
RobertScorpio
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Re: Which Borg incarnation is freakier? Series or First Contact?

Kirk1980 wrote: View Post
There's only really one way to redeem the Borg Queen...that is, if it had been stated that she was an experiment to see why humans (with usually single leaders) were able to beat their ass at Wolf 359.

Maybe it was just something they considered, tried out and then dropped.

That would have worked for me.

But yes, THE SERIES BORG rocked. Especially with how well Q built them up.
Ummm..Not sure what you mean. Starfleet got its but kicked at WOLF 359. So, if anything, going with her was a mistake.

Rob
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Old March 17 2009, 03:51 PM   #23
Chemahkuu
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Re: Which Borg incarnation is freakier? Series or First Contact?

Kirk1980 wrote: View Post
There's only really one way to redeem the Borg Queen...that is, if it had been stated that she was an experiment to see why humans (with usually single leaders) were able to beat their ass at Wolf 359.

Maybe it was just something they considered, tried out and then dropped.

That would have worked for me.

But yes, THE SERIES BORG rocked. Especially with how well Q built them up.
Nope. First Contact implied the Queen(s) had always existed and that a near eternity of being surrounded by only the Collective as its only partially individual life form left her lonely enough to try and create an "equal" to herself, a King to co-rule the Borg.

Really, really stupid idea that did not need to be introduced except to have one specific "bad guy" for the audience to identify with. Personally I would have preferred "the voice" or singular mind of the Collective to have grown tired of slowing down its communication with Data to a verbal level and created a new type of Drone to act through.

Which would have been all the more chilling since it would have been made out of one of his former ship mates and speaking with an ungodly sounding voice and no compassion at all for them. Once they retook the ship the drone would have been killed leaving only the Collective at large again.
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Old March 17 2009, 05:39 PM   #24
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Which Borg incarnation is freakier? Series or First Contact?

The way I saw the Queen in First Contact (though not later in Voyager, which undermined this idea) was this: to me, the Queen was not necessarily the control mechanism of the Collective, but more like a release valve. All of the mental/emotional toxicity that builds up due to the suppression of the drones was vented through this one drone built along a different model than the others, as a processor/buffer. To destroy the Queen is to remove this escape valve and cause the Collective she represents to implode.

I was able to accept First Contact by accepting an explanation along those lines...but Voyager really DID dumb down the Borg, and that I never did accept.
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Old March 17 2009, 09:45 PM   #25
QuasarVM
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Re: Which Borg incarnation is freakier? Series or First Contact?

The Borg were at their freakiest in the episodes "Q-Who?" and "Best of Both Worlds I & II". After that they -- for me -- they lost their mystique.

Then they kind of reclaimed it for First Contact, but they were still not as scary as they were in those first three episodes.

I think Hugh really did a lot to kill them for me.
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Old March 17 2009, 11:16 PM   #26
Captain Gandalf
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Re: Which Borg incarnation is freakier? Series or First Contact?

QuasarVM wrote: View Post
The Borg were at their freakiest in the episodes "Q-Who?" and "Best of Both Worlds I & II". After that they -- for me -- they lost their mystique.

Then they kind of reclaimed it for First Contact, but they were still not as scary as they were in those first three episodes.

I think Hugh really did a lot to kill them for me.
Agreed. But what made them especially scary was the music in "Q Who?" and especially "BOBW"; it made your skin crawl!
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Old March 18 2009, 05:38 AM   #27
kythe
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Re: Which Borg incarnation is freakier? Series or First Contact?

I actually liked the Borg queen. She gives them some background, perhaps offering a bit of an explanation for how the Borg got started and what drives them all to continue assimilating. You all do make some good points about the Borg queen though.

I voted for series and First Contact equally in terms of scariness for the Borg. The Borg weren't ruined for me at all until Voyager came along.
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Old March 18 2009, 11:34 AM   #28
Tiberius
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Re: Which Borg incarnation is freakier? Series or First Contact?

Gary7 wrote: View Post
I also support the series perspective as being the most powerful. I can't agree more that introducing a Borg queen was contradictory to the whole principle upon which the Borg are based--an anonymous collective. There is NO NEED for a queen. It makes no sense. The collective mind is what drives the Borg. And that is what is so alien. So formidable. So deadly. As Picard said, "You can't reason with the Borg." At least not until their existence is threatened, as with species 8472.

So yes... FC started it and Voyager propagated it... this "violation" to Borg life. The queen. Tragic defacement of a great idea.
Actually, I'm going to disagree with most people here and say that the Queen is actually not only plausible, but logical and maybe even inevitable when it comes to the Borg. I won't explain in this thread why I think that (it would be off topic), but I'd be happy to start a thread about it.
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Old March 18 2009, 03:37 PM   #29
QuasarVM
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Re: Which Borg incarnation is freakier? Series or First Contact?

Captain Gandalf wrote: View Post
QuasarVM wrote: View Post
The Borg were at their freakiest in the episodes "Q-Who?" and "Best of Both Worlds I & II". After that they -- for me -- they lost their mystique.

Then they kind of reclaimed it for First Contact, but they were still not as scary as they were in those first three episodes.

I think Hugh really did a lot to kill them for me.
Agreed. But what made them especially scary was the music in "Q Who?" and especially "BOBW"; it made your skin crawl!
Your damned right! You can thank the awesome talents of Mr. Ron Jones for those. And what did he get as a reward for his outstanding efforts?

Firing. Fired by Rick Berman.

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Old March 18 2009, 07:02 PM   #30
Captain Gandalf
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Re: Which Borg incarnation is freakier? Series or First Contact?

QuasarVM wrote: View Post
Captain Gandalf wrote: View Post
QuasarVM wrote: View Post
The Borg were at their freakiest in the episodes "Q-Who?" and "Best of Both Worlds I & II". After that they -- for me -- they lost their mystique.

Then they kind of reclaimed it for First Contact, but they were still not as scary as they were in those first three episodes.

I think Hugh really did a lot to kill them for me.
Agreed. But what made them especially scary was the music in "Q Who?" and especially "BOBW"; it made your skin crawl!
Your damned right! You can thank the awesome talents of Mr. Ron Jones for those. And what did he get as a reward for his outstanding efforts?

Firing. Fired by Rick Berman.

Why doens't that surprise me? After all, it's same man who gave "a Valentine Massacre Day" to the fans.
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