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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old March 17 2009, 02:31 AM   #16
Brent
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Re: Relativity

Neutrino wrote: View Post
Brent wrote: View Post
They can scan the timeline like sensors scan in space, so they should know of any meddling by other time travelers, like Nero
But to them it's already happened and is history. They can only police time travelling from their own time period. If their sensors indicate a change in the time line then clearly it's been done by someone from their time period.
They were eager though to go back in time and fix Voyager getting blown up by a temporal weapon, they certainly intervened there.

If Voyager was destroyed, which it was, then wouldn't that have been their history already at that point? THEIR present was the present where Voyager was destroyed in the past.
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Old March 17 2009, 02:31 AM   #17
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Re: Relativity

Brent wrote: View Post
Neutrino wrote: View Post
Brent wrote: View Post
They can scan the timeline like sensors scan in space, so they should know of any meddling by other time travelers, like Nero
But to them it's already happened and is history. They can only police time travelling from their own time period. If their sensors indicate a change in the time line then clearly it's been done by someone from their time period.
They were eager though to go back in time and fix Voyager getting blown up by a temporal weapon, they certainly intervened there.
What temporal weapon? where did it come from? If you mean the Krenim torpedo incident a future Braxton was meddling with it which is why they had to get involved.
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Old March 17 2009, 02:34 AM   #18
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Re: Relativity

Neutrino wrote: View Post
Brent wrote: View Post
Neutrino wrote: View Post

But to them it's already happened and is history. They can only police time travelling from their own time period. If their sensors indicate a change in the time line then clearly it's been done by someone from their time period.
They were eager though to go back in time and fix Voyager getting blown up by a temporal weapon, they certainly intervened there.
What temporal weapon? where did it come from? If you mean the Krenim torpedo incident a future Braxton was meddling with it which is why they had to get involved.
In the episode relativity, they stopped Voyager from blowing up, which would have been their past anyway, a past where voyager was destroyed, that was their present.
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Old March 17 2009, 02:35 AM   #19
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Re: Relativity

Neutrino wrote: View Post
Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
There is an answer to that question, why doesn't 29th century Starfleet stop Nero:

They still can.

In a very real sense, they have plenty of time.
But what if Nero's time travel escapade alters the future to the point where there is no time agency, no temporal accord and no Relativity? How do we know for certain the Relativity is safe from time alterations?
We know their *ships* are, so it stands to reason that their entire organization is as well.
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Old March 17 2009, 02:37 AM   #20
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Re: Relativity

But which time agency gets to determine what actions to take when, you gotta think, if they had a temporal agency in the 29th century that watches over the timeline and policies it, then wouldn't there be one in the 31st century, and the 50th century, and the 100th, century and the 456,642,466 century? So which time agency gets control of policing the timeline? To an agency billions of years in the future it is ALL the past to them! heh
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Old March 17 2009, 02:39 AM   #21
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Re: Relativity

Brent wrote: View Post
In the episode relativity,
That's the episode which involved a future Braxton. Voyager exploded due to Braxton putting a temporal disruptor on the ship. So it wasn't already in their history, their sensors detected a change in the timeline because someone in their future meddled with the timeline.
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Old March 17 2009, 02:39 AM   #22
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Re: Relativity

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The Relativity was from the distant future. Any temporal meddling by folks from the 25th century would be in their history.
Exactly, so in order to police Nero's time travelling we need a 24th century Temporal police force, but none exists!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and they don't exist until the signing of the Temporal accord by which time Nero's time jump is history.

Actually, this thread makes a strong argument in favor of a whole-sell Star Trek reboot.
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Old March 17 2009, 02:40 AM   #23
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Re: Relativity

Neutrino wrote: View Post
Brent wrote: View Post
In the episode relativity,
That's the episode which involved a future Braxton. Voyager exploded due to Braxton putting a temporal disruptor on the ship. So it wasn't already in their history, their sensors detected a change in the timeline because someone in their future meddled with the timeline.
Just like their sensors should detect a change in the timeline when Nero destroys the Kelvin....
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Old March 17 2009, 02:46 AM   #24
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Re: Relativity

Brent wrote: View Post
But which time agency gets to determine what actions to take when, you gotta think, if they had a temporal agency in the 29th century that watches over the timeline and policies it, then wouldn't there be one in the 31st century, and the 50th century, and the 100th, century and the 456,642,466 century? So which time agency gets control of policing the timeline? To an agency billions of years in the future it is ALL the past to them! heh
Ok, it's 2781 and your sensors (which have a finite scanning range of perhaps 10 years into the future but full range into the past) detects a timeline change, someone from a future time period 2788 has gone back in time and altered history. You immediately go about rectifying the mistake. The mistake is now rectified, because it's rectified in 2781 it doesn't need rectifying in the future because obviously you know it's already done. Imagine it's now 2785, your sensors are still detecting the time jump from 2788 but you already rectified it in 2781 and that information is also on your sensors.
Your rectifying of the timeline in 2781 makes sure that in 2385 you know that it's been done and you don't need to time jump.

The you in 2781 and the you in 2785 aren't different people, it's the same you and the you in 2785 won't do anything because to that you in 2785 you already went back and sorted it out 4 years previous.

Brent wrote: View Post
Neutrino wrote: View Post
Brent wrote: View Post
In the episode relativity,
That's the episode which involved a future Braxton. Voyager exploded due to Braxton putting a temporal disruptor on the ship. So it wasn't already in their history, their sensors detected a change in the timeline because someone in their future meddled with the timeline.
Just like their sensors should detect a change in the timeline when Nero destroys the Kelvin....
no, because Nero is from their history, Braxton who destroyed Voyager was from their future. They can't detect a time alteration caused by someone from the past because to them it is already done and is history.
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Old March 17 2009, 03:03 AM   #25
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Re: Relativity

^ they should be able to detect that time travel is taking place, surely they can scan for the properties of time travel and see when it is occuring
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Old March 17 2009, 03:09 AM   #26
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Re: Relativity

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^ they should be able to detect that time travel is taking place, surely they can scan for the properties of time travel and see when it is occuring
But it is a part of History, it's not something that's just suddenly going to pop up on sensors because it's already happened 500 hundred years ago! and it is an event that has already shaped their time line. They're not going to see any time line alteration because as far as they're concerned it is already a part of what's happened, to go back and alter it would be to screw with their own time line.
Detecting new time jumps and alterations by people from the future is different from seeing events that occured 500 hundred years in the past. Nero isn't from the 29th century, he's from the 24th and to the crew of the Relativity it's nothing more than something for the History books.

Imagine it's 2650, for the first time ever you switch on the first ever temporal sensor, it shows you that Nero in 2390 went back in time to 2230 or whenever. What do you do? obviously you do nothing, because to do anything would mess up your own time line and you will be unaware of what the consequences might be.
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Old March 17 2009, 04:40 AM   #27
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Re: Relativity

A.) There is not chance that this movie is intended to be in some kind of alternate time line.

B.) As to being 'fast enough' to fix an alteration in the time line, the only way you could do that is to stop the person from jumping back in time. The very second they make their jump back, any action they take back in the past, even if it takes years or decades for them to achieve their goal, has already occurred in you time frame. If you plan to chase them back in time and you make your jump even a fraction of a nano second after they do, you are too late.
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Old March 17 2009, 05:25 AM   #28
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Re: Relativity

PurpleBuddha wrote: View Post
There is not chance that this movie is intended to be in some kind of alternate time line.
Beg pardon? It's common knowledge by now that this is exactly what happens. Not only that, but it's an alternate timeline that *does not overwrite the original*.
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Old March 17 2009, 07:41 AM   #29
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Re: Relativity

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
PurpleBuddha wrote: View Post
There is not chance that this movie is intended to be in some kind of alternate time line.
Beg pardon? It's common knowledge by now that this is exactly what happens. Not only that, but it's an alternate timeline that *does not overwrite the original*.

That's how they're spinning it, to keep people from screaming bloody murder. But I still don't see what the real dramatic impact would be if it is an alternate timeline.

Why do I care if this guy creates a seperate timeline if there's no danger to the original one?
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Old March 17 2009, 11:54 AM   #30
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Re: Relativity

Maybe each time agency has control over certain types of events depending on what's changed. Or each have jusistiction over certain times. My guess would be that if someone screws with the timeline then the time agency closest to it in the future is the one who responds, if they fail then the next one ahead has all the time in the world to eventually step in and take control, etc etc slowly going further and further into the future until eventually one of them does something.

EDIT: Similar to law enforcement today maybe. Local sheriff is in charge but if he doesnt handle it right or quickly enough the local police take over, if he fails then the FBI step in and take control,etc, and up the ladder it goes except this ladder is a temporal one, the future into the future obviously the more knowledge and control you have.
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