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Old March 13 2009, 05:45 AM   #196
Tachyon
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

LOL. I see. It must suck, then.
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Old March 13 2009, 05:58 AM   #197
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

RAMA wrote: View Post
I watched "The Gift" the other day...not an episode I ever thought of much. I was really impressed, it was a tight script, with good development for 2 characters. Not bad this Voyager..

RAMA
I think 'The Gift' is a fantastic outing for Voyager. Fairly good exit for one character and a nice intro to another. It had a nice symmetry to it that I didn't expect. It's remembered fondly. Though the ending, concerning Seven in her catsuit and childhood memories...and hair, seemed a bit rushed.
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Old March 13 2009, 06:01 AM   #198
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I agree. The Gift was a fairly good exit for Kes and good introduction to Seven. Seven should have remained more Borgish for few more episodes, but overall The Gift was one of the highlights of Season 4. The writing was to the point, especially when it came to the debate of humanity and free will. Seven was like a recovering addict, who insisted having her right to choose now that her individual mind had been "activated" because of the separation from the collective.

And it is a tear-jerker episode, too. I like it. If Kes really had to go, I'm glad she got a decent episode to do so.
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Old March 13 2009, 07:22 PM   #199
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

*drum roll*

Season 2



The 37's (*½)

Now here is an episode which makes no sense. In 1937 some aliens came to Earth, abducted hundreds of humans from the four corners of the world, brought them to the other side of the galaxy to use as slaves, and somehow the humans managed to overthrow them, destroy their ship and build their own civilisation.

Say what? That doesn't make any sense from either a logical or logistical viewpoint.

There is little plot cohesion. First they find a truck in space (no explanation given), then they find the planet, then they land on the planet, then they find the 37s, then they unfreeze them, then there's a boring hostage situation, then there's a lot of stuff about Amelia Earhart, then there's a shoot-out, then there's some talking, then there's a whole load of stuff about who is going to stay on the ship, then the show ends. There is at least three different stories in this episode and it only needed one. To make things worse, Voyager lands on the planet even though it doesn't add anything to the episode other than screen-time. It looks nifty and all, but in an episode which already suffers from making little sense they could have used that five minutes to help sort out the story threads.

This is a golden opportunity for Voyager to pick up some new crew members from the human population on the planet, but the episode doesn't even investigate this possibility. Instead it decides to explore who will stay on the ship and who will stay on the planet, which is not all that interesting because we know that all the cast is going to stay. If I was offered the chance to go into space on a ship as advanced as Voyager then I would say goodbye to my family and take the leap, so why does nobody on this planet decide to tag along and maybe see the mythical homeworld of their people? We could have had some new recurring cast members and maybe a few stories about integrating them into the crew, but instead we have a nice shot of Voyager flying off into the sunset.

Which makes no sense because Voyager had to land on the planet because of some mumbo-jumbo in the atmosphere which looked like really thick clouds, so why is everything sunny on the surface?

Season 2, you will have to try harder than this.
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Old March 13 2009, 07:43 PM   #200
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^well, i don't know if this will help in your review, but this episode was filmed as part of the first season's episodes. in fact, 4 of the first 6 episodes of season 2 are actually season 1 episodes. UPN cut VOY's season short for some reason. IMO, i think the 37's should've been the first season finale b/c of the final scene in the cargo bay.

otherwise, interesting take even though i don't necessarily agree with all points, but i doubt us debating this would change your mind.
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Old March 13 2009, 08:02 PM   #201
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Agreed again, GodBen.

This episode is utterly stupid (just why did those aliens choose to eject that pickup in space?) and like you said the cloud mumbo jumbo was just an excuse to use the ship-landing feature they had designed into it, and a rather lame one at that. I think they should have picked a more meaningful reason to use it the first time.

It seems the dramatic goals of this episode were two-fold. First, let Janeway meet one of her childhood heroes. Second, let the crew meet a well-established group of humans and decide whether it is worthwhile to continue onward. Fair enough. That said, I have long thought it could have been handled much better, and much more believably.

(If I may derail for a moment. I'll return control when done.)

First, Voyager doesn't find a pickup truck in space. They pick up an automatic distress call which appears to be Starfleet. Closing in, they find an old automated recorder-marker buoy (not unlike the one from the Valiant in TOS's 'Where No Man Has Gone Before.') It turns out to be from a Starfleet ship (which I'll call the Earhart) reported missing near the Romulan border in the 2190s. They detect what appears to be a Starfleet warp signature coming from a nearby world. Warping there, they come under attack from an old Starfleet ship - in fact, the Earhart itself (possibly Daedalus class) apparently still running after all these years with newer tech patched on.

We would discover that the Earhart accidentally fell through the Barzan wormhole years ago, was stranded when the wormhole shifted, and wandered through the Delta Quadrant aimlessly for years, not knowing where they were (the maps of the era lacking sufficient info to clue them in) until finally discovering the uninhabited world and settling on it, keeping their ship running to supply and defend the colony. For many years, they have been bullied by a neighboring alien race (possibly Kazon?) This has left them rather paranoid, and also, since the Prime Directive was relatively new at the time, they may've taken some liberties. Voyager helps them deal with their alien problem while bonding with the humans. Similarly to how it was presented in the aired episode, the Voyager crew are then offered the choice to stay behind with the Earhart descendants, or carry on, and offer them the similar choice to come with them. This cultural exchange and deliberation would force the Voyager crew to face the possibility that they might never be able to get home, and might have to settle as the Earhart did. I would definitely have had some of the Earhart descendants come with them, but the Earhart (being slower) and the majority of its descendants stay behind. It might also be interesting if some of the Voyager crew wanted to stay behind but were pursuaded otherwise behind Janeway's back by Chakotay.

Anyway, that's roughly how I'd have done it. You can have your thread back, GodBen. I think you were generous rating this episode as well as you did, and I'll let you have the last word:

GodBen wrote: View Post
Season 2, you will have to try harder than this.
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Old March 13 2009, 08:21 PM   #202
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

The 37s is definitely worth of more than *½. Granted that it was not the best Season 2 has to offer, but I think the aspect of crew having a choice to choose was a good one.
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Old March 13 2009, 09:32 PM   #203
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Praetor wrote: View Post
First, Voyager doesn't find a pickup truck in space. They pick up an automatic distress call which appears to be Starfleet. Closing in, they find an old automated recorder-marker buoy (not unlike the one from the Valiant in TOS's 'Where No Man Has Gone Before.') It turns out to be from a Starfleet ship (which I'll call the Earhart) reported missing near the Romulan border in the 2190s. They detect what appears to be a Starfleet warp signature coming from a nearby world. Warping there, they come under attack from an old Starfleet ship - in fact, the Earhart itself (possibly Daedalus class) apparently still running after all these years with newer tech patched on.

We would discover that the Earhart accidentally fell through the Barzan wormhole years ago, was stranded when the wormhole shifted, and wandered through the Delta Quadrant aimlessly for years, not knowing where they were (the maps of the era lacking sufficient info to clue them in) until finally discovering the uninhabited world and settling on it, keeping their ship running to supply and defend the colony. For many years, they have been bullied by a neighboring alien race (possibly Kazon?) This has left them rather paranoid, and also, since the Prime Directive was relatively new at the time, they may've taken some liberties. Voyager helps them deal with their alien problem while bonding with the humans. Similarly to how it was presented in the aired episode, the Voyager crew are then offered the choice to stay behind with the Earhart descendants, or carry on, and offer them the similar choice to come with them. This cultural exchange and deliberation would force the Voyager crew to face the possibility that they might never be able to get home, and might have to settle as the Earhart did. I would definitely have had some of the Earhart descendants come with them, but the Earhart (being slower) and the majority of its descendants stay behind. It might also be interesting if some of the Voyager crew wanted to stay behind but were pursuaded otherwise behind Janeway's back by Chakotay.
That's an excellent idea! It would have been much easier to pace than The 37's, plus it would have had a Daedalus class ship which is guaranteed to promote an episode to uber-cool status.

Tachyon wrote: View Post
The 37s is definitely worth of more than *½. Granted that it was not the best Season 2 has to offer, but I think the aspect of crew having a choice to choose was a good one.
The idea is a good one, and that is how the episode earned 1 of its 1.5 stars. The idea is such an important one that you could have done a whole episode on the subject, but here it was just tacked into the final act of the Amelia Earhart episode and it didn't get the exploration that the issue deserved.
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Old March 13 2009, 09:42 PM   #204
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
That's an excellent idea! It would have been much easier to pace than The 37's, plus it would have had a Daedalus class ship which is guaranteed to promote an episode to uber-cool status.
Why, thankya, and my thought too.

Tachyon wrote: View Post
The 37s is definitely worth of more than *½. Granted that it was not the best Season 2 has to offer, but I think the aspect of crew having a choice to choose was a good one.
The idea is a good one, and that is how the episode earned 1 of its 1.5 stars. The idea is such an important one that you could have done a whole episode on the subject, but here it was just tacked into the final act of the Amelia Earhart episode and it didn't get the exploration that the issue deserved.
Yeah, it ended up feeling like 'The Savage Curtain' because of Earhart's presence. Good idea, campy execution.
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Old March 13 2009, 09:50 PM   #205
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Praetor wrote: View Post
Yeah, it ended up feeling like 'The Savage Curtain' because of Earhart's presence. Good idea, campy execution.
At least The Savage Curtain had Abraham Lincoln beating up Genghis Khan. If The 37's had Amelia Earhart kicking Issac Newton between the legs the episode would have earned an extra half star.
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Old March 13 2009, 09:54 PM   #206
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote: View Post
Yeah, it ended up feeling like 'The Savage Curtain' because of Earhart's presence. Good idea, campy execution.
At least The Savage Curtain had Abraham Lincoln beating up Genghis Khan. If The 37's had Amelia Earhart kicking Issac Newton between the legs the episode would have earned an extra half star.
Or better yet, Adolf Hitler.
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Old March 13 2009, 10:21 PM   #207
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

While I would pay good money to watch Hitler be kicked in such a sensitive area, I just love the symbolism of Issac Newton falling to Earth.
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Old March 13 2009, 10:41 PM   #208
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

And his apples crushed?
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Old March 13 2009, 11:36 PM   #209
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I've always loved "The 37's." Granted, the episode feels like someone went "Hey, we should find a way to make the chick flying across the Delta Quadrant meet the first chick to cross the Atlantic," and then the plot was built around the idea. But I actually found the "will some people abandon ship?" to be done well, and to be touching.
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Old March 14 2009, 12:21 AM   #210
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

I've never loved the "The 37's". I felt it was pretty weak, especially as a season opener. But, and this may sound odd, but I would have enjoyed it more if it had aired as (originally intended) the first Season Finale episode. The whole landing of Voyager and the crew deciding to stay with Voyager felt more appropriate somehow as a kind of bookend to Season 1. I don't know how that makes the episode more likable in my brain, but it does. lol
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