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View Poll Results: Grade "Gray Hour"
Excellent 4 7.14%
Above average 24 42.86%
Average 20 35.71%
Below average 5 8.93%
Poor 3 5.36%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 10 2009, 12:01 AM   #46
CobraCommander
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Re: Dollhouse 1x04 Gray Hour - Poll & Discuss

Count me in the Topher is annoying wagon too! I don't go for the Alpha is Echo's sweetheart since he did murder her parents in ep. 2. That wouldn't be a way to impress your girlfriend (unless she is Faith from Buffy).
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Old March 10 2009, 12:25 AM   #47
Mr Light
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Re: Dollhouse 1x04 Gray Hour - Poll & Discuss

I don't mind Topher... he's the only character on the show with a personality.
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Old March 10 2009, 03:13 AM   #48
Plain Simple
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Re: Dollhouse 1x04 Gray Hour - Poll & Discuss

CobraCommander wrote: View Post
Count me in the Topher is annoying wagon too! I don't go for the Alpha is Echo's sweetheart since he did murder her parents in ep. 2. That wouldn't be a way to impress your girlfriend (unless she is Faith from Buffy).
He murdered her parents?!? Was that the scene where he's watching the video of Echo? That scene was quite confusing imo. I didn't really figure out what was going on there. Certainly didn't get the idea that he murdered her parents. Quite a big thing I'd say.

The Alpha story line up till now can not really hold my attention. Perhaps because Alpha has just been a mostly unseen force up until now, and not a very interesting one imo. Alpha here, Adam on BtVS... why can't Joss come up with interesting first male villains.
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Old March 10 2009, 06:51 PM   #49
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Re: Dollhouse 1x04 Gray Hour - Poll & Discuss

When he's watching the video, he is in an average middle class house with the bodies of a man and a woman. They both appear to be 40-ish (the hair and clothing). Since he is looking through a personal video of Caroline, the logical deduction is that he is in her parents home. I don't understand the futiility of killing the parents. There is now no way for Echo to go home. She has nothing left.
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Old March 10 2009, 11:08 PM   #50
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Re: Dollhouse 1x04 Gray Hour - Poll & Discuss

CobraCommander wrote: View Post
I don't go for the Alpha is Echo's sweetheart since he did murder her parents in ep. 2. That wouldn't be a way to impress your girlfriend (unless she is Faith from Buffy).
If my speculation is correct, that would be EX-sweetheart. So, no need to impress. I think he's trying to get back AT her, not get back WITH her.
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Old March 10 2009, 11:18 PM   #51
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Re: Dollhouse 1x04 Gray Hour - Poll & Discuss

Plain Simple wrote: View Post
Alpha here, Adam on BtVS... why can't Joss come up with interesting first male villains.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but The Master, Spike, Angel, and The Mayor all predated Adam on BtVS.
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Old March 11 2009, 01:10 AM   #52
Iasius
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Re: Dollhouse 1x04 Gray Hour - Poll & Discuss

FPAlpha wrote: View Post
So far the show is living off Whedon credit in my corner.

It is mildly intriguing, has an interesting premise and arch storytelling (a big one for me).
I disagree on the interesting premise part. At least for a TV show, it doesn't make sense. TV shows thrive in developing *characters* and the resulting stories that you like to follow each week. At least that's the reason I like my favorite shows.
On the other other side of the coin it has mediocre acting (sorry Dushku.. you are pretty and my type but i guess there's a reason why you aren't a big movie or TV star outside of Whedon shows), some dumb premises (really.. why hire a negotiator, bodyguard or midwife for 1 million $ or more when you can get a real professional for a fraction of the cost) and overall mediocre stories.
Yes, Eliza Dushku is very pretty and I must admit, the main reason I'm still watching this show (not that Fox cares about me watching this show ) alongside hoping that Whedon can conjure up a miracle and save this mess. The problem is, that's not nearly enough to keep me interested for long.
The premise of this show has a *major* flaw in it and it's right at the center. How are we supposed to care about her and the other mind-wiped characters every week unless an underlying personality quickly emerges?
Basically, this show tries to have its cake and eat it too. The basic premise is tailor-made for a really episodic television show (or maybe containing multiple mini arcs). But since it's the same actors portraying the different characters each week we're also supposed to see some sort of overall (character) arc to these episodes.
I don't see how that can continue forward, we'll either get an episodic television show (unlikely, as it would mean changing the cast often), or we're going to move to a format that eliminates the "new personality every episode" format soon, however, that's pretty much the point of these early episodes.

I feel like I'm watching a multi-episode extended prologue to the actual series and I don't think this prologue is particularly interesting.
I'm pinning my hope that it picks up soon and switches into high gear and if this doesn't happen within the next 5 episodes or so i think i'm done.
That's what I'm wondering, what constitutes "switching into high gear" on this show while still maintaining the basic premise of this show?

I'll be pleasantly surprised if Whedon came up with a twist that I didn't think of and ties all of this together, but especially given the ratings, I suppose I should be glad that I'm not exactly becoming attached to this show right now, as much as I liked Firefly, Angel and to a lesser extent Buffy.


Oh and yes, I ignored completely here that the Dollhouse as depicted makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, but that's been covered by others very well already (see Temis's posts among others).
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Old March 11 2009, 05:50 AM   #53
Plain Simple
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Re: Dollhouse 1x04 Gray Hour - Poll & Discuss

Rii wrote: View Post
Plain Simple wrote: View Post
Alpha here, Adam on BtVS... why can't Joss come up with interesting first male villains.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but The Master, Spike, Angel, and The Mayor all predated Adam on BtVS.
You are most definitely misunderstanding me. I didn't mean (first) (male villains), but (first male) villains. Adam: first man according to biblical genesis story; Alpha: first letter/first-leading male in a group. And obviously the names were chosen to elicit these ideas, definitely for Adam, but probably for Alpha as well.



Iasius wrote: View Post
I feel like I'm watching a multi-episode extended prologue to the actual series and I don't think this prologue is particularly interesting.
I'm pinning my hope that it picks up soon and switches into high gear and if this doesn't happen within the next 5 episodes or so i think i'm done.
That's what I'm wondering, what constitutes "switching into high gear" on this show while still maintaining the basic premise of this show?
Well put. The prologue is spun out too much. I didn't read the original script of the first episode that was linked to in last week's thread, but according to some who did, it contains many elements that ended up in episodes 1-4, which only reinforces the idea that the prologue was extended into multiple episodes.

Whether or not the show goes into high gear in a couple of episodes, I think the least we may expect is that Echo starts remembering 'past lives' and starts to build some personality, so that we can invest in the character. Expect to be fully immersed in her story by the time the show is cancelled.

My curiosity demands me to ask: what German dialect is that signature of yours in? And what does it say? Closest I can come by educated guessing is "And yet they still managed to kill the East?" or something along those lines?
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Old March 11 2009, 06:52 AM   #54
Iasius
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Re: Dollhouse 1x04 Gray Hour - Poll & Discuss

Plain Simple wrote: View Post
My curiosity demands me to ask: what German dialect is that signature of yours in? And what does it say? Closest I can come by educated guessing is "And yet they still managed to kill the East?" or something along those lines?
It's low German and a quote from a resident of my home town on 20th July 1944 as reported by Erika Staack:

[translated by me]
Erika Staack:
On July 20th 1944, as the failed assassination attempt on Adolf Hitler was made public through the radio, I was walking through the village to carry out an errand. At the marketplace, as I was passing carpenter Carstens' house - we had lived there shortly, when we came to Sittensen in 1936 - a window opened. Sanna Cartens looked out, called to me and said: "Had they just managed to kill that carrion." ["Harrn se dat Oos bloß dootkregen."]
She knew to whom she could say that, but terrified, it was called the "German look", I looked around to make sure no one had heard. Such a sentence in the wrong ears could mean death. My husband and I had once visited the place of execution in Berlin Plötzensee. A lot lesser utterances have led people to be put to death there.
By the way, Sanna Carstens lovely beautiful son Heini died in the last days of the war uselessly, like everything in this war, in Breslau.
From "Witnesses of the history of the Börde Sittensen 1918-1956", a book written a few years ago, recording the memories of those in the village where I grew up. I never knew my grandparents and they never talked much to my parents about that time, so as a person who is interested in history this book was the closest I could come to see what life in that time was like for my grandparents.
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Last edited by Iasius; March 11 2009 at 07:08 AM.
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Old March 11 2009, 07:12 AM   #55
Plain Simple
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Re: Dollhouse 1x04 Gray Hour - Poll & Discuss

^Thanks. "Carrion", that makes sense now I think about it.

It must be great to have a detailed account of part of the history of your town. Especially if it's a small town it's usually not very likely to find it I guess. And you might even know the people in the book, or at least their descendants, personally if the town's small enough.
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