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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Battlestar Galactica & Caprica

Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

View Poll Results: Grade the episode...
Excellent 50 26.18%
Above Average 80 41.88%
Average 43 22.51%
Below Average 14 7.33%
Poor 4 2.09%
Voters: 191. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old March 8 2009, 06:28 AM   #151
Corran Horn
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x18: "Islanded in a Stream of Stars"

Cyrus wrote: View Post
Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
I wonder what Cavil's gonna do with Hera onboard V'ger.
I see I am not the only one that was reminded of V'ger. Was that the colony or just a huge Cylon spaceship?
Weird, I thought it was a Borg Unimatrix.
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Old March 8 2009, 07:29 AM   #152
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x18: "Islanded in a Stream of Stars"

startrekwatcher wrote: View Post
Lost is better in any number of ways IMO:
-it balances expertly both character and plot much better
Eh, otherwise than John Locke non of Lost's characters match the excellence of Adama, Roslin, Tigh and Tyrol in terms of character arc. Plotwise the whos are different and it's tough to compare.

-it is much more imaginative in its concepts and ideas
Not much I can argue with there otherwise than to say that I disagree.

-it has better plot twists and revelations
That's like saying that The Twilight Zone has better spooky stories than The West Wing. BSG isn't all about big plot twists. As far as revelations go nothing on Lost can beat Crossroads, Parts One and Two when it comes to revelations. Locke's wheelchair reveal comes close but it occurred so early on when we didn't have as much attachment to the character.

-it unabashedly embraces its mythology and its serialized nature to where it dedicates every episode to it not just ever so often. Lost is a series that actually makes the most of serialization in a way I've really never seen before.
There were tons of episodes during the first three seasons that did not do that.

-it actually remembers its numerous threads and develops them whereas BSG which isn't nearly as ambitious in terms of what it has to keep up with forgets them or drops them altogether.
Examples?

-It has a cast as large as BSG but it juggles them around giving them more to do and bringing them more effectively into the story than BSG.
Dude, they wrote Claire out for a whole season.

-the writers are better at making material fit in the episode without losing important scenes.
Eh, I don't think that's much of anything.

-it is better paced and covers ground like there is no tomorrow. Every episode is crammed to the point where it is overflowing with story.
But BSG is moreof a character show than a plot show. Always has been.

-it has mastered alternating storylines to the point where every thread is engaging and holds your interest.
Uh, no. The flashbacks were hit and miss. Kate is always boring. The Oceanic Six onland stories left a bit to be desired.

-it knows how to develop a season long arc and to actually execute a slow burn and build up to the finale instead of the puttering BSG has a bad habit of doing.
BSG is firing on all cylinders in my book.

-It has far more characters you actually care about
Uh uh. I love Locke but otherwise than him none of the characters match Laura, Bill and Tigh for me.

-It doesn't resort to the stylish pretentious habit that BSG has of the close up shaky camera on the actor as their face contorts in a grimace in order to notify the audience that a dramatic scene is in progress.
I think it works fabulously.

-Its villians are much more interesting. I'll take Ben or Widmore over Zarek or the Cylons.
Again, apples and oranges.

-And from a purely structural standpoint Lost is a work of art and form as far as its assembly. How the writers put each episode and season together of such a complex series with the grueling demanding schedule of a weekly network series impresses the hell out of me.
Now that they have shorter seasons. When Lost had longer seasons they struggled quite a bit.

-And most importantly it is more fun and entertaining.
Like most of your points that's too subjective.
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Old March 8 2009, 07:40 AM   #153
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x18: "Islanded in a Stream of Stars"

I'm curious about something. I've barely watched Lost (More like never other than a few clips here and there) and people call it the most imaginative, creative thing on TV. Now not knowing the context, I do know that the show has been doing a time travel theme lately. Given people's attitudes about time travel in Star Trek, and how that theme is such an old plot device anyway, why do people praise Lost so much again?
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Old March 8 2009, 04:20 PM   #154
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x18: "Islanded in a Stream of Stars"

This episode was fine. I also didn't think we needed to see another Adama break down since it's been done before and it doesn't have the same impact as it did the first time. Also we've been seeing him get emotional about things these past few weeks.

I felt the episode needed something a bit more. More Cavil scenes, something outside the ship. I guess they needed to save money for the final but these episodes prior will not be memorable when we look back.
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Old March 8 2009, 04:45 PM   #155
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x18: "Islanded in a Stream of Stars"

startrekwatcher wrote: View Post
Lost is better in any number of ways IMO:
I've watched Lost since it first aired in my country four years ago and I've been a fan since the third episode. I love the show, I think it is good popcorn entertainment which has moments of greatness, but I prefer BSG.

-it balances expertly both character and plot much better
Sometimes, certainly not in its first three seasons. I was so unbelievably pissed off back in season one where they had a big cliffhanger moment where they introduce the hatch, and the next week they don't advance that story at all but rather tell a stupid story about how Kate is a whiny bitch who needs to be hit repeatedly with a shovel until she stops moving.

-it is much more imaginative in its concepts and ideas
What is Lost about, exactly? It is a show about a battle for control over a magical island. It has time travel, electromagnets which can destroy the world, smoke monsters... It is ridiculous crap, but it is entertaining and is very well produced.

BSG, for all its flaws, tries to be about something and it has ever since Adama gave his "worthy for survival" speech in the miniseries. It has since become a show about the inherent destructive nature of mankind and how we are doomed to repeat a cycle of war. I can't judge whether it will all work out until I see the finale, but I still have to give them credit for trying.

-it has better plot twists and revelations
I have to agree with sidious, Crossroads did contain the mother of all revelations. Lost has some excellent twists (Michael shooting Anna-Lucia and Libby, Ben shooting Locke, the flash-forward in Through the Looking Glass), but I still don't think they are at the same level as Crossroads.

And Lost has an annoying habit of ending every episode on a cliff-hanger, even if it isn't very good. Ben revealing how he would trick and capture Sayid if he was an Other back in season 2 was very well acted, but the next episode begins by him saying that he was only joking. If you don't have a cliff-hanger then don't pretend that you do.

-it has mastered alternating storylines to the point where every thread is engaging and holds your interest.
Kate's story has never held my interest.

-It has far more characters you actually care about
If Locke was written out then I probably wouldn't care about the show anymore. Desmond, Sayid and Sawyer are all okay, Jack is much better now than he was in the early seasons, but Locke is the glue that keeps me stuck to the show. I'll elaborate about Ben below.

-Its villians are much more interesting. I'll take Ben or Widmore over Zarek or the Cylons.
No. Ben was great back in season 2 when we was pretending to be Henry Gale, he quickly became my favourite character on the show. But in season 3 he became very boring until Locke showed up about half-way through the season. He was okay in season 4, he was magnificent in The Shape of Things to Come, but so far in season 5 his only good scene was with Locke.

Ben is a great character when paired with Locke, but once you remove Locke from Ben's story he just becomes a boring character. Ben is Locke's antagonist, he isn't good at being anything else.

As for Widmore, he has been in a handful of episodes and has never struck me as being all that interesting.

Baltar is the villain of BSG, and he is far better than either Ben or Widmore. He is a good guy whose demons keep on forcing him into doing the wrong thing. He is a narcissist who hates what he is, he is a great character who has been badly utilised this season.

-And most importantly it is more fun and entertaining.
And that is almost all it is. It is a fun show with great character moments, but it is closer to The Da Vinci Code than Lord of the Flies.
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Old March 8 2009, 08:26 PM   #156
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x18: "Islanded in a Stream of Stars"

Ayelbourne wrote: View Post
Mr Awe wrote: View Post
I, and others, have been pointing this out for some time now. And, why settle for less? It's possible to do both, characters and plot.
It's possible, but not neccessary. It's not "less", it's just different.
Characters moments < Character moments plus tight plotting

By definition, it is less. It's harder to do both simultaneously, but that's why it is better.

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Old March 8 2009, 08:27 PM   #157
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x18: "Islanded in a Stream of Stars"

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
I wonder what Cavil's gonna do with Hera onboard V'ger.
This made me chuckle.
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Old March 8 2009, 08:31 PM   #158
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x18: "Islanded in a Stream of Stars"

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
I'm curious about something. I've barely watched Lost (More like never other than a few clips here and there) and people call it the most imaginative, creative thing on TV. Now not knowing the context, I do know that the show has been doing a time travel theme lately. Given people's attitudes about time travel in Star Trek, and how that theme is such an old plot device anyway, why do people praise Lost so much again?
For me it works. Give it Lost a try from the beginning on DVD. Watch it in order. Given your posts, I think you'll like it. As I've said, I prefer BSG's premise but end up enjoying Lost more because the execution is so much better. At least it has been for the last couple of years. There was one year or so where Lost didn't get it quite right. Too much stalling, or filler, as we're calling it here with character moments. Sound familiar? But, unlike BSG, the Lost writers adapted and man oh man the series has really been banging away on all cylinders. So, don't give up on it when you get to that patch of filler episodes.

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Old March 8 2009, 08:35 PM   #159
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x18: "Islanded in a Stream of Stars"

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
One other thing, I really hope we see Doral and Simon again before the series ends. They have been criminally neglected and I was thinking about that this week.
I guess Sixes and Eights are prettier than Threes and... crap, I actually forgot their numbers. I know they're Fours and Fives only through process of elimination, that's how long it's been.

Leoben's been out since Earth, too.
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Old March 8 2009, 08:38 PM   #160
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x18: "Islanded in a Stream of Stars"

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
tomalak301 wrote: View Post
One other thing, I really hope we see Doral and Simon again before the series ends. They have been criminally neglected and I was thinking about that this week.
I guess Sixes and Eights are prettier than Threes and... crap, I actually forgot their numbers. I know they're Fours and Fives only through process of elimination, that's how long it's been.

Leoben's been out since Earth, too.
I think it's pretty crappy how the only Cylons that have any kind of significant screentime are the Ones, Threes, Sixes, Eights and final five. Simon, Doral and Leoben have been really neglected. For me Leoben not appearing in the last few episodes as part of the work party on Galactica is really noticable as well as Simons lack of anything since New Caprica. Has he even spoken since then?
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Old March 8 2009, 09:17 PM   #161
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x18: "Islanded in a Stream of Stars"

When Baltar referred to Kara as one of the Angels, for a brief moment I thought that the new reborn Kara was actually one of the "head" characters, except that she was in everyone's head. But then I realized that wouldn't make sense as she clearly has a physical presence.
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Old March 8 2009, 09:18 PM   #162
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x18: "Islanded in a Stream of Stars"

GodBen wrote: View Post
What is Lost about, exactly? It is a show about a battle for control over a magical island. It has time travel, electromagnets which can destroy the world, smoke monsters... It is ridiculous crap, but it is entertaining and is very well produced.
Re-posted for truth.

And for all those who would argue that Lost's tight, serialized storytelling is one of its greatest strengths, know also that it is one of its greatest liabilities. To anyone who wasn't intiated early on, Lost is impenetrable. It's lucky to have sustained its core audience for so long, because I don't see it picking up any new viewers.

Maybe people on the outside looking in see Galactica similarily, but it's not true, and certainly not to the extent that it's true for Lost. Galactica has always been a character-driven show, whereas Lost has always struck me as a plot-driven show (though its clear Locke is a popular character). And plot-driven shows are always harder to get into than character-driven shows. Always.

Lost fans can have the tight, serialized storytelling that they criticize Galactica for not having. I think Galactica will have the last laugh. In this era of DVD/Blu-ray, I think Galactica will sustain itself more successfully than Lost, thanks to its more accessible, character-driven stories and shorter season count, compared to 6-7 seasons of Lost that offer nothing but dense, plot-driven, insider-friendly stories. If you're someone who has to choose a show to jump in to, it's hard to deny Galactica's appeal -- especially when the quality-level of each show (Galactica and Lost) is so equally high.
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Old March 8 2009, 09:54 PM   #163
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x18: "Islanded in a Stream of Stars"

ialfan wrote: View Post
Myasishchev wrote: View Post
tomalak301 wrote: View Post
One other thing, I really hope we see Doral and Simon again before the series ends. They have been criminally neglected and I was thinking about that this week.
I guess Sixes and Eights are prettier than Threes and... crap, I actually forgot their numbers. I know they're Fours and Fives only through process of elimination, that's how long it's been.

Leoben's been out since Earth, too.
I think it's pretty crappy how the only Cylons that have any kind of significant screentime are the Ones, Threes, Sixes, Eights and final five. Simon, Doral and Leoben have been really neglected. For me Leoben not appearing in the last few episodes as part of the work party on Galactica is really noticable as well as Simons lack of anything since New Caprica. Has he even spoken since then?
The Centurions have been really underrepresented. Especially considering they were given free will once again. Seeing them rebel against the human Cylons would have been fascinating. But at least there's an excuse in not using them since it would be a strain on the FX budget.
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Old March 8 2009, 10:09 PM   #164
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x18: "Islanded in a Stream of Stars"

ialfan wrote:
I think it's pretty crappy how the only Cylons that have any kind of significant screentime are the Ones, Threes, Sixes, Eights and final five. Simon, Doral and Leoben have been really neglected. For me Leoben not appearing in the last few episodes as part of the work party on Galactica is really noticable as well as Simons lack of anything since New Caprica. Has he even spoken since then?
I'm not sure, but Cavil mentioned him once a few episodes ago!

Oh and before someone catches it, obviously I mispoke earlier, because the Threes are Lucy Lawlesses, who are prettier than Dorals or Simons.

Maybe the actors aren't available... but why would TV character actors turn down piecework like the Leoben, Doral, and Simon roles?
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Old March 8 2009, 10:16 PM   #165
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x18: "Islanded in a Stream of Stars"

Cyrus wrote: View Post
When Baltar referred to Kara as one of the Angels, for a brief moment I thought that the new reborn Kara was actually one of the "head" characters, except that she was in everyone's head. But then I realized that wouldn't make sense as she clearly has a physical presence.
So does headSix, though. Baltar has sex with her all the time and touches her.
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