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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old March 2 2009, 02:45 PM   #91
Christopher
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Re: Titan: Over a Torrent Sea (SPOILERS)

I don't understand why there's a discussion about abortion going on here. First, as I already said, there was no abortion-rights issue in Destiny. The baby was inevitably going to die (as far as anyone knew at the time). It's not as if Ree's decision would've changed the baby's fate -- only the mother's fate was in question. I think that trying to cast this as an abortion-rights issue is profoundly misreading the facts of the case.

Second, this debate is about something that happened in Destiny, so what is it doing in the thread for Over a Torrent Sea? Aren't we getting off topic here?
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Old March 2 2009, 10:26 PM   #92
LutherSloan
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Re: Titan: Over a Torrent Sea (SPOILERS)

Christopher wrote: View Post
I don't understand why there's a discussion about abortion going on here. First, as I already said, there was no abortion-rights issue in Destiny. The baby was inevitably going to die (as far as anyone knew at the time). It's not as if Ree's decision would've changed the baby's fate -- only the mother's fate was in question. I think that trying to cast this as an abortion-rights issue is profoundly misreading the facts of the case.

Second, this debate is about something that happened in Destiny, so what is it doing in the thread for Over a Torrent Sea? Aren't we getting off topic here?
I agree. Neither this book nor Destiny was talking about abortion at all.

I finished this last night, and I second basically everything else above.

Some comments:
-Before the name of Riker and Troi's daughter was revealed, I had a feeling that it would be Tasha. When I read the part referencing 'the woman who died trying to save my life' (coming from Troi), I knew that HAD to be Tasha.
-I agree with a few other posters that I would like to see more of Dakal. The first Cardassian in Starfleet is a big thing, especially considering the not-so-friendly relations either have had with each-other for 20-30 years or so. At least when Worf joined Starfleet, the UFP and the Klingons had been allies for some time.
-Bralik is another character that I was glad to see SOME of, although it wasn't very much this time.
-I thought that the beginning dragged a lot, as the Titan crew was attempting to figure out what was going on. Pretty much once it was determined that the asteroid was headed for Droplet, things heated up.
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Old March 3 2009, 02:45 PM   #93
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Re: Titan: Over a Torrent Sea

Excuse me, please.

This is the discussion thread for Over a Torrent Sea.

If you folks want to debate the ethics of the decision Dr. Ree made in the Destiny trilogy, then please take it to a thread that's actually about the Destiny trilogy.
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Old March 3 2009, 03:40 PM   #94
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Re: Titan: Over a Torrent Sea

Christopher wrote: View Post
Excuse me, please.

This is the discussion thread for Over a Torrent Sea.

If you folks want to debate the ethics of the decision Dr. Ree made in the Destiny trilogy, then please take it to a thread that's actually about the Destiny trilogy.
I tend to agree here.

This is a great topic for discussion but none of the events being discussed seem to be relevant to this novel.

Give me a minute, there's a feature where I can split a thread. I'll be creating a new thread for just that specific topic so that the already good discussions on it can continue.
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Old March 3 2009, 03:50 PM   #95
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Re: Titan: Over a Torrent Sea (SPOILERS)

Alright your new thread to discuss abortion as it is related to Destiny and Titan:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=84377

I tried to move all of the relevant posts and direct replies to those posts to that thread. There may be a few lingering here that kinda reference those. The only real side-effect here is that Christopher's pleas to keep this one on topic now look all out of place, but it's whatever.
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Old March 3 2009, 04:03 PM   #96
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Re: Titan: Over a Torrent Sea (SPOILERS)

^Thank you.
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Old March 3 2009, 05:49 PM   #97
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Re: Titan: Over a Torrent Sea (SPOILERS)

CLB,

I was curious why you decided to name the planet "Droplet"? The first time I read that my initial reaction was "Holy cheesy Batman!" I have gotten used to the name but would be interested in knowing why you chose that name.
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Old March 3 2009, 06:35 PM   #98
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Re: Titan: Over a Torrent Sea (SPOILERS)

sunbari1 wrote: View Post
CLB,

I was curious why you decided to name the planet "Droplet"? The first time I read that my initial reaction was "Holy cheesy Batman!" I have gotten used to the name but would be interested in knowing why you chose that name.
Have you met Christopher's sense of humor?
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Old March 3 2009, 11:41 PM   #99
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Re: Titan: Over a Torrent Sea (SPOILERS)

Just wanted to add a quick two cents, Christopher. I loved the book, finished it last night. I was laughing out loud at the scene featuring Hulian taking a dip. Good stuff. Will you be doing annotations for this book, similar to your others? I always garner a deeper insight after I reread the book with the annotations!

Thanks for an excellent yarn!
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Old March 4 2009, 12:06 AM   #100
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Re: Titan: Over a Torrent Sea (SPOILERS)

sunbari1 wrote: View Post
I was curious why you decided to name the planet "Droplet"?
Well, it's a big round ball of water, innit?

At the time I came up with the name, I was hoping I could concoct something like the ocean in space from VGR: "Thirty Days," only on a planetary scale and naturally occurring. The name would've fit that pretty well. But that would've been physically impossible, I now know. A Leger ocean planet was about as close as I could come to that, and I decided the name was close enough to keep.

One thing that fiction often overlooks when it comes to scientists is their sense of whimsy. Physicists hunt for particles named MACHOs and WIMPs. Biologists coin taxonomic names like Ba humbugi and Lalapa lusa. Scientists enjoy their work, and they often like giving goofy names to things. I don't want Titan's crew to be a bunch of stuffy nerd stereotypes who insist on doing everything with humorless formality. I want them to be like real science nerds, to have fun doing their job and not be afraid to get silly occasionally.


aaon80 wrote: View Post
Will you be doing annotations for this book, similar to your others? I always garner a deeper insight after I reread the book with the annotations!
Annotations will be coming soon.
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Old March 4 2009, 12:13 AM   #101
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Re: Titan: Over a Torrent Sea (SPOILERS)

I'm curious Christopher. Is it possible for Titan to "dive" under the sea? I was under the impression that they could since they have been fitted with the latest technology. Plus, it would be kinda cool.

Also cool that I got the 100th post.
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Old March 4 2009, 02:37 AM   #102
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Re: Titan: Over a Torrent Sea (SPOILERS)

Man of Steel wrote: View Post
I'm curious Christopher. Is it possible for Titan to "dive" under the sea? I was under the impression that they could since they have been fitted with the latest technology. Plus, it would be kinda cool.
They have the latest technology for a space vessel. It doesn't follow that such technology would allow it to function as a submarine.

Leela: Depth at 45 hundred feet, 48 hundred, 50 hundred! 5000 feet!

Farnsworth: Dear Lord, that's over 150 atmospheres of pressure.

Fry: How many atmospheres can this ship withstand?

Farnsworth: Well it's a spaceship, so I'd say anywhere between zero and one.
http://www.futurama-madhouse.com.ar/...s/2acv12.shtml


Also cool that I got the 100th post.
Actually you got the 101st, according to the info on my screen.
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Old March 4 2009, 02:50 AM   #103
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Re: Titan: Over a Torrent Sea (SPOILERS)

What exactly IS the pressure in space? I always thought it was pretty high.
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Old March 4 2009, 03:09 AM   #104
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Re: Titan: Over a Torrent Sea (SPOILERS)

LutherSloan wrote: View Post
What exactly IS the pressure in space? I always thought it was pretty high.
^^Forgive me, are you making some sort of joke I'm not getting? Space is a vacuum. The pressure is effectively zero. Hence Farnsworth's line in the Futurama quote.
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Old March 4 2009, 07:02 AM   #105
mug
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Re: Titan: Over a Torrent Sea (SPOILERS)

Before I get started on my book thoughts, allow me to remind all those in far away locales who are eagerly awaiting possession of their copy that we do live in an age where one can purchase books electronically over the internet and have the work arrive on one's computer/PDA/phone screen practically instantaneously! I'm not trying to reignite the dead tree argument, I'm just saying. I buy all my Trek books as eBooks and it saves me time, energy and often money, too. Not to mention shelf space.

On to the book. I knew going in that there was no way this book would meet my expectations, because Orion's Hounds is one of my favourite Trek books of all time (easily in my top 5). Christopher's much-lauded skill with worldbuilding as well as his ability to draw out new facets and dramatic arcs from underutilized or underdeveloped characters (i.e., Troi) were only some of the things that made that book an absolute joy for me.

So did I like this book as much as Orion's Hounds? No. But I still enjoyed it, especially the squales. It is always a pleasure when Trek lit takes advantage of its medium to create new, truly alien species. I really enjoyed the way the squale culture was revealed, from the first indications that they were intelligent when they saved Aili from a predator to the moment when Aili realizes that the squales think that Titan has abandoned her and Riker because they can't fathom (ahem) that intelligent creatures would not be able to maintain communication with one another at all times.

The Tuvok/T'Pel stuff was wonderful. I love the way their relationship has been portrayed in the books, and I think it's been interesting to see a Vulcan in the role of a caregiver, both to a spouse and to children from different cultures than her own. The scene with T'Pol and Alyssa's son was really sweet -- it's always nice to see Vulcans interacting with members of other species without trying to force the Vulcan value system upon them. That's a charicature that seems to often have been played out on TV, I think.

I didn't see this book as particularly dark at all -- there were lots of light moments. Having Torvig take the initiative to swap out his bionic implants was hilariously in character, and I did enjoy the exchange where Huilan admits to Aili that he perpetuates the false notion that his species is unusually heavy so that he won't end up being "cuddled."

Speaking of Aili, it was great to have her character and biology expanded upon. I have to confess, though, I kind of bristled at the overarching theme of her story. I understand that her personal moral failure did not reside in her sexual promiscuity but rather her neglecting her children and her familial duty while she engaged in that behaviour. But still, as a fan who is really rather tired of the sexual conservatism in Trek, the whole thing put my hackles up. I think I'll need to read the book again before I make a judgment. I especially did not enjoy the scene where Riker basically calls Aili a slut. I just wish that Trek existed in a vision of the future where sexual shame were extinct; it's a tall order, given the enormous role it plays in our current society. I know people will take me to task for being too hard on Christopher and Trek lit in general, especially since the books have made huge strides in terms of overcoming the conservatism with regard to sex and gender which, I feel, was severely detrimental to the latter seasons of Trek on TV. And I in no way want to overlook the work that many modern Trek authors have done to make the vision of the future truly more equitable (Christopher included, natch).

As for the adventures of my beloved Dr. Ree -- reading Christopher's comments above about his fit of parental vigour being comparable to ponn farr, the whole thing makes a lot more sense. I think that could have been better explicated in the book. One thing I will say for all of the scenes with out-of-whack Dr. Ree is that it was a great opportunity to have Ree being his hilarious self, with tons of wise-cracks, often at Tuvok's expense, making them even more hilarious. And seriously, did anyone think that Deanna Troi was going to have a baby in a normal way in a normal birthing chair? I think Christopher did a nice job of making the arrival of little Tasha as unusual and exciting as we'd expect.

So overall, a great read. Lots of the science went over my head, but there was plenty of character stuff to pull me along. I may not have liked it as much as Christopher's last Titan novel, but I was not at all disappointed. Good work, sir!
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