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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Battlestar Galactica & Caprica

Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

View Poll Results: Grade the episode...
Excellent 98 40.33%
Above Average 76 31.28%
Average 45 18.52%
Below Average 15 6.17%
Poor 9 3.70%
Voters: 243. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old February 28 2009, 08:03 PM   #121
flux_29
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x17: "Someone to Watch Over Me"

Is there any hope of redemption for Boomer?



A good episode, dark, but good. And how will Athena deal with Helo eventhough it's not really his falt. But i think Tyrol got it worst, not only was boomer back in his life but everone around him was going to let her die, he helped her escape death, only to be manipulated into helping her carry out Hera's abduction.

Have we ever seen cylons share projections? A dream house, married to the man she want's and a projected daughter. If she were human: Two words, "Bunny Boiller". I guess if she receeds into this 'life', she mustn't like living on a baseship a whole lot.

I think that the bit about being truthful to him and wanting him to go with her was real, but i guess she's picked her side.
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Old February 28 2009, 08:12 PM   #122
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x17: "Someone to Watch Over Me"


Example: Babylon 4.

At the start of B5, it is said B4 vanished 24 hours before becoming operational. Then we see it reappear, learn that it's being taken through time, and at the end we know that two of the lead characters are involved. Now the audience is set up to expect that it's into the future. We resolved what happened to Babylon 4, but not why and how. So we have a piece resolved but now we have more questions. Then when we get the answers, it subverts what the audience expects -- B4 being taken into the far future.

Consider if we got what Starbuck is in this episode or earlier, now the characters and her have to deal with what that means -- much like the Final Five. Now we watch to find out what Starbuck is, who was the other Starbuck or where did she come from. Say you make her a cylon or say that she's a cylon, which is the audience expectation, now the trick is to subvert it and dangle a new carrot for us to jump for.

Instead of dealing with it now, it seems that we have to get it all in the final few hours of the series and I fear that the finale will be very much on par with DS9's "What You Leave Behind," where everything is crammed into two hours.
Have you considered that maybe the writing staff of BSG is not trying to get the audience to jump at carrots? And, if I am at all following your template (and I am not sure that I am), don't you think that we should wait until the series ends before criticizing its structure? The difference between the two shows that you fail to appreciate is that B5 is a fully aired series and BSG is not. One can look at and see B5's structure as a whole. But how can you judge what the BSG writers have and have not done well until you've got THEIR whole picture in front of you?

We've still got 4 hours left. That's like 3 average-length feature films. There's plenty of time and I'm sure the show will end up being dramatically sound by the end.

(NOTE: I could very well have those words shoved down my throat. I'm prepared for that, but I am going to remain patient and reserve final judgment until everything is presented to me.)
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Old February 28 2009, 08:16 PM   #123
hyzmarca
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x17: "Someone to Watch Over Me"

Given that she had no where else to go but back to Cavil's fleet, even if it wasn't a plan to kidnap Hera she didn't have any choice in the matter. She has to deliver him something of greater value than Ellen. In essence, Roslin and the Rebels chose her side for her.

We've still got 4 hours left. That's like 3 average-length feature films. There's plenty of time and I'm sure the show will end up being dramatically sound by the end.
Technically, we have 172 minutes left. That's just under 3 hours.
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Old February 28 2009, 08:17 PM   #124
sidious618
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x17: "Someone to Watch Over Me"

Not to mention that they have in fact already resolved a shitload of stuff starting with the episode "Revelations." While watching this episode I really felt like the end was near (sort of like watching the last four to five episodes of The Shield or The Wire or The Sopranos) and that things were aligning themselves for the last act. The structure is definately working for me.
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Old February 28 2009, 08:31 PM   #125
WeAreTheBorg
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x17: "Someone to Watch Over Me"

Amazing episode. It's all starting to fluoresce and build into an amazing finale.
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Old February 28 2009, 08:51 PM   #126
Kchunda
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x17: "Someone to Watch Over Me"

Peacemaker wrote: View Post
Well, Cogley, it's just a theory, but I'm actually working with a dj in CA right now on a project, and as we were talking tonight, it suddenly occurred to me that music has a frequency, as does light. Music is also mathematical. Music is also connected to astronomy via Pythagoras.

Now, according Pythagoras, each of the seven planets produced by its orbit a particular note according to its distance from the center which was the Earth. Pythagorians also discussed music as the harmony that binds the universe. The point here that its possible that the real, ultimate significance of that set of notes is that it can be made into an astronomical map.

Hera said she was drawing the stars. Starbuck remembered a set of notes in the song. So, if you could do something like figure out the harmonic identities of the notes and plot them astronomically, that could be either a map of the system containing a habitable planet ("Earth 2" for lack of a better term) or a map of stars, similar to the map of the constellations we saw way back in Season 2 ok Kobol, which leads to such a world. And we know that's what they're looking for. At the moment, they're lost. They need a map. If anybody could figure it out in the context of the story, it would be Baltar.

Now the Cylons have Hera. The Fleet has Starbuck. Both are hybrids. Hybrids navigate for the Cylons. So now, both parties may well have a map to the same place, a habitable planet.
I love where you are going - so I did a little googling to try and verify something I thought I remembered which was along your lines. . .

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Faith#Act_1

"The Raptor carefully searches for the baseship amidst the exploding ordnance. Thrace can hear "music" (Leoben confirms this is a rare trait among some Cylons as well) and takes control to fly the Raptor towards the gas giant. She sees the comet she expected, but not in the form; Leoben's stricken baseship is flying past, trailing gas that gives it a comet-like appearance."

http://www.411mania.com/movies/dvd_r...pisode-69-.htm

"Parts of the destroyed Cylon fleet are exploding all around the Raptor. Starbuck can hear the music again. Leoben says that the unstuck music resonates in all of us, Kara is one of the few who can hear it. Anders looks beyond confused."

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993928/synopsis

"The Raptor jumps to the base ship coordinates...and it's littered with the remains of Cylon fighters and war ships. It looks like they weren't lying about a civil war, Athena says. Starbuck says she hears music, and Leoben explains that a certain harmony vibrates all around us. Few can hear it, he says, and Starbuck's one of them."

Starbuck heard the music when she was a kid, which caused her to doodle the Eye of Jupiter and play out the music (that Anders could also hear at one point thousands of years ago) on piano. . . so what does this mean!?!?!?
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Old February 28 2009, 09:07 PM   #127
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x17: "Someone to Watch Over Me"

WeAreTheBorg wrote: View Post
Amazing episode. It's all starting to fluoresce and build into an amazing finale.
Stunning episode.

The TOS Cylon riff on the piano was a nice touch, the all Along the Watchtower reveal made me smile and boomers betrayal took it over the top.

Such a fantastic mood created by the piano playing.

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Old February 28 2009, 09:10 PM   #128
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x17: "Someone to Watch Over Me"

We've been receiving hints and clues about all those major plot threads we want resolved since the series began. Why there's suddenly a great desire to see the show just dump everything on us astounds me. Are we really that stupid? There's no need for the show to change its M.O. simply because it's coming to an end. We will get the answers we want. But we will get them in a distinctly elegant, nuanced way.

Which is, you know, how BSG has always operated.
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Old February 28 2009, 09:15 PM   #129
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x17: "Someone to Watch Over Me"

Well it looks like they are setting up the big finale to be the Fleet vs Cavil for a mission to get back Hera! Great premise for a finale.

It's increasingly looking like Starbuck's daddy was "Daniel" - I'm going to go with the theory that Daniel is mysterious 'cylon God', that when his model got killed, he somehow got popped up into the nether consciousness.
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Old February 28 2009, 09:41 PM   #130
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x17: "Someone to Watch Over Me"

I haven't read all 5 pages, and I'm behind everyone else, but I wanted to give my thoughts... I've just seen the episode - I was going to vote below average, but I'm afraid considering we're only a few episodes from the finale, I've had to vote poor.

The first 20 minutes was just hallucinations, flashbacks, pianos and montages. At this late stage in the game, I'm not all that interested in that kind of stuff, I'd much rather see a push towards the conclusion with some questions answered.

I've never been keen on Starbuck anyway, so I wasn't that into this, and I'm also of the opinion that all the character development should've been handled by now. I was hoping to see a return to the more ensemble style, with a lot more people involved.

I've got the feeling as well that this whole idea that Galactica is falling apart has kinda come out of leftfield, and has gone from them finding a couple of cracks to the entire ship collapsing in a surprisingly short time (it reminds me a bit of Voyager episodes where out of the blue the entire ship was just hours away from being dead in space ). I know this episode is supposed to be a couple of weeks after last week's, but still..

The last 5 minutes pretty much gave me what I was looking for, but for the most part this episode spent too much time treading water for me. Hopefully next week will be back to pushing the story along, tying up various loose ends and move away from this filler feeling of the last few weeks.

Just my two pennies, judging by the poll, I don't expect many people to share my views
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Old February 28 2009, 10:02 PM   #131
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x17: "Someone to Watch Over Me"

I voted this episode Excellent for the exact same reason that I voted No Exit Below Average.

I was suspicious that the guy at the piano was Starbuck's dad from their very first scene together and I was gearing up to the revelation moment that I knew was bound to come. But this episode didn't spell it all out for the audience, it allowed us to realise it on our own. Starbuck didn't have a revelation moment, she knew it was him in her own way. He'll probably end up being the Leoben she met in Maelstrom, and he might be Head Six and Head Baltar as well. And the moment she she started playing All Along the Watchtower and the guitar kicked in... kickass!

The story between the Chief and Boomer was good too, especially when Boomer escaped and kidnapped Hera. I guess now we know where the story is heading for the finale.

For the guy who mentioned that the picture Hera drew was a starmap, I had a similar thought when I saw it. I thought Kara would use it to find Earth 2 in this episode, but using it as the notes for the song was just as good. Hopefully it can be both.

For those who didn't like this episode, I'm just curious as to whether you preferred No Exit. A lot of the complaints I have seen have been saying that there was no revelations and the episode was too slow, but I disliked No Exit because there was almost no story and it moved too slowly. I'm just wondering if there is an inverse correlation between the people who liked these two episodes.
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Old February 28 2009, 10:47 PM   #132
Ryan Thomas Riddle
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x17: "Someone to Watch Over Me"

Gregsmack wrote: View Post
Have you considered that maybe the writing staff of BSG is not trying to get the audience to jump at carrots?
I have and the writers have been dangling carrots since the show began -- the Cylons' plan, Starbuck's specialness, Kobal, the nature of the Cylons, the Final Five, Baltar's visions, the Opera House, Hera, and Earth.

Moreover, the Starbuck destiny is the biggest carrot of them all, set up since season one.

And, if I am at all following your template (and I am not sure that I am), don't you think that we should wait until the series ends before criticizing its structure? The difference between the two shows that you fail to appreciate is that B5 is a fully aired series and BSG is not. One can look at and see B5's structure as a whole. But how can you judge what the BSG writers have and have not done well until you've got THEIR whole picture in front of you?
Fair enough, but I do appreciate the differences, and I'm willing to stick it through. However, a television series, Babylon 5 included when it was in first-run, is a living breathing work and as such is still open to criticism, analysis, and debate. And the same things being done here with nuBSG are the same things done while B5 was still airing. For example, the much criticized fifth season.

Hell, I take a critical look at a novel's structure even as I'm reading it long before I get to the ending.

We've still got 4 hours left. That's like 3 average-length feature films. There's plenty of time and I'm sure the show will end up being dramatically sound by the end.
I'm sure it won't disappoint; however, I fear that'll be a kitchen sink ending.

(NOTE: I could very well have those words shoved down my throat. I'm prepared for that, but I am going to remain patient and reserve final judgment until everything is presented to me.)
Now that wasn't so bad, right?
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Old February 28 2009, 10:52 PM   #133
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x17: "Someone to Watch Over Me"

GodBen wrote: View Post
For the guy who mentioned that the picture Hera drew was a starmap, I had a similar thought when I saw it.
Exactly. This important plot-point has been hiding in plain sight all along. The song is a map. It contains the location where the story will end.

We've been told that the Final Five held the key to all this, and at first they were the only ones who could hear the song. It was buried deep in their programming. Now we learn that Hera and Kara know the song as well, and more importantly Kara's Cylon dad wrote the frakking thing.

The song is a map, and Daniel is calling everyone home.
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Old February 28 2009, 11:07 PM   #134
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x17: "Someone to Watch Over Me"

GodBen wrote: View Post
For those who didn't like this episode, I'm just curious as to whether you preferred No Exit.
Yes I thought "No Exit" was excellent and probably the best episode all season and yes it received that high praise from me because it provided such an intriguing, coherent narrative that really added to the BSG mythology tying together pieces in such an elegant way. Does that mean though that just because it was heavy on revelations that I have to have revelations to enjoy an episode? No.

I can enjoy a variety of different types of stories ranging from the purely plot driven variety to the character drama with little to no plot whatsoever. Like I've repeatedly stated(and this is the last I have to say on it), is for me I've found the season starting all the way back to last year to be uneven, oddly paced, not very well-plotted with questionable story directions and character usage that were it not the show's final season might not be as pronounced. But for a serialized drama like BSG to feel at times aimless and lost as far as its narrative purpose in its final season is bewildering especially after Moore has repeatedly stated that he felt that four seasons was just right to tell the story he wanted without overstaying his welcome as a creative force.

A slow burn is one thing where the writers carefully build a story over a season ramping up the tension and excitement and it is another when the writers stall and throw a bone to the viewer.
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Old February 28 2009, 11:11 PM   #135
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x17: "Someone to Watch Over Me"

Note from podcast, the piano player is indeed Kara's father. I didn't find that to be made so obvious, since he was so young and Kara didn't recognize her, but RDM says the idea is that she was too young to remember clearly what he looked like, but intuitively knew if not conciously.
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