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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Battlestar Galactica & Caprica

Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

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Old February 19 2009, 04:47 AM   #331
Lindley
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Daniel isn't real. He's an archetype created by a cabal of men who split with Valhalla Sector for the purposes of rallying the masses. Everyone knows that.
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Old February 19 2009, 07:16 AM   #332
BigFoot
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
Sharr Khan wrote: View Post
Back to existential tendieces, I fully expect an ending that will cause us and the characters to quistion the context of their lives as well as the events of the series. Now this could turn out (and it will piss some people off...) that indeed there is a kind of One True God at work, but its nature turns out to be... a writer/creator type.
What if "Daniel" turns out to a an opposite force that balances out John? A yin to his yang. As John goes through the galaxy spreading hate and destruction, Daniel is pulling the strings to try to pull people together though love and acceptance.
Well that rules out Starbuck.
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Old February 19 2009, 10:45 AM   #333
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Sharr Khan wrote: View Post
Don't be shocked if we step behind those foot lights. To do so is no less mystical, or even supernatural then looking into the face of G-d.

Sharr
I thought the section you quoted from the podcast was VERY interesing. Add to that the fact that Moore has quite a sense of irony, and things may well end up differently than expected (as always ).

Oh, and there's something I wanted to say in response to what you stated earlier (I don't know if it was in response to what I said or not). I certainly woulnd't count out the religious or mystical elements. I just think it's cool that (so far as I can tell now) a little bit more than I expected is actually NOT attributable to a higher power or god.
What I mean is that in terms of what was revealed, a lot of what happened in the human and Cylon conflict was character driven. For example, you have the Final Five's decision to want to help the other colonies and to develop the skinjobs as part of that. And then you have Cavil's decision to essentially turn on his makers.
I just like that those things come down to the characters making choices.

Again, having said that, I certainly think that many events may well have been orchestrated. And the 'Head' people as well as Kara's return certainly seem to point to something 'greater'.
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Old February 19 2009, 04:23 PM   #334
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Sharr Khan wrote: View Post
Back to existential tendieces, I fully expect an ending that will cause us and the characters to question the context of their lives as well as the events of the series. Now this could turn out (and it will piss some people off...) that indeed there is a kind of One True God at work, but its nature turns out to be... a writer/creator type.
I think we've gotten quite a bit of that so far, so I'd agree that it continues. Roslin was quite shaken when Earth wasn't as advertised. The Final Five have had their questions about who they are. Kara is still a large unknown. Cavil is certainly question who he is. Etc. I'm sure that'll continue to the end of the series.

However, I just don't see any god making an appearance or anything else that proves or disproves either religion. So, I don't think Daniel will be revealed as either the Cylon god (either a true or exposed as a false god and thereby either proving or disproving the Cylon religion). Besides, I believe Anders said the Cylon religion comes from the centurions so is probably indepedent of Daniel.)

I think both religions will continue to serve as a motivator as well as a source of questions (like it was for Roslin when the prophesies seem to be wrong). And, indeed the religions may evolve, or even merge, as they've done in our real history in response to changing circumstances and pressures. After all, any changes to the question of who you are could easily change views on religion.

I wonder if the resolution for Cavil and who he is is to simply give him what he wants? He's questioning his present humanoid form, so change his form in exchange for peace. The Final Five have proven that they'll trade advanced technology in exchange for peace. That seemed short sighted before and it may well be here as well. But, what happened before happens again . . .

Mr Awe
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Old February 19 2009, 04:32 PM   #335
Mr Awe
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
Sharr Khan wrote: View Post
Back to existential tendieces, I fully expect an ending that will cause us and the characters to quistion the context of their lives as well as the events of the series. Now this could turn out (and it will piss some people off...) that indeed there is a kind of One True God at work, but its nature turns out to be... a writer/creator type.
What if "Daniel" turns out to a an opposite force that balances out John? A yin to his yang. As John goes through the galaxy spreading hate and destruction, Daniel is pulling the strings to try to pull people together though love and acceptance.
That's an interesting idea on several levels. For one thing, the idea of good and evil balancing each other. But, also the idea that tangible evil can be balanced by a disembodied notion of good that can only change people's thoughts. That can lead to a change in actions but it's more indirect than the tangible evil. It's up to individual actions to set things right and it helps if they have something positive to believe in. I don't think this scenario requires anything supernatural, although I suppose it could be the basis for a new religion.

This goes back to the idea of sufficiently advanced technology appearing to be mystical to more primitive people. I could easily see the descendents of the humans and cylons colonizing a primitive planet and reverting back technology wise due to a subsistence living conditions. The historical events will be beyond the descendents' comprehension as science and become a new religion.

I'm wondering if the series ends with a fastwording looking at the descendents of the humans and Cylons?

Mr Awe
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Old February 19 2009, 04:41 PM   #336
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
Sharr Khan wrote: View Post
Back to existential tendieces, I fully expect an ending that will cause us and the characters to quistion the context of their lives as well as the events of the series. Now this could turn out (and it will piss some people off...) that indeed there is a kind of One True God at work, but its nature turns out to be... a writer/creator type.
What if "Daniel" turns out to a an opposite force that balances out John? A yin to his yang. As John goes through the galaxy spreading hate and destruction, Daniel is pulling the strings to try to pull people together though love and acceptance.

and that would circle back to the original series, with Count Iblis and the Ship of Lights.


-Chris
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Old February 19 2009, 04:44 PM   #337
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Just another thought about Daniel being disembodied. What about a variation of the downloading technology wherein the download is more of a stream, like streaming video or audio, if you will. Daniel streams his thoughts into people such as Baltar, and they take the form of people know to him.
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Old February 19 2009, 04:48 PM   #338
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Cavil was fun - and for the first time, a Cylon actually started acting like someone who had the mind of a robot and not a human! That was nice to see, and frustrating that we're only now seeing it.
Except that there's nothing in the least "machine-like" about his thinking. He thinks like a deluded, angry and probably psychotic human being. That's understandable - he is a kind of human being, and has no idea whatever what it would be like to be a machine. He's just telling himself stories.
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Old February 19 2009, 10:00 PM   #339
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

All of John's angst can be resolved with a brand new chromejob body. I propose this:



Get to work, Chief.
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Old February 19 2009, 10:28 PM   #340
Mr Awe
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

I seriously wonder if part of the resolution with Cavil and the others will just be to build him a new body that he likes. I wonder what he'd want?
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Old February 19 2009, 11:11 PM   #341
Robert Maxwell
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Mr Awe wrote: View Post
I seriously wonder if part of the resolution with Cavil and the others will just be to build him a new body that he likes. I wonder what he'd want?
From the way he talks, it almost sounds like he'd rather be a Hybrid, or otherwise embody a ship. Something large, powerful, with virtually unlimited capabilities. One wonders if he might be working on just such a thing for himself.
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Old February 20 2009, 05:44 PM   #342
Mr Awe
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Mr Awe wrote: View Post
I seriously wonder if part of the resolution with Cavil and the others will just be to build him a new body that he likes. I wonder what he'd want?
From the way he talks, it almost sounds like he'd rather be a Hybrid, or otherwise embody a ship. Something large, powerful, with virtually unlimited capabilities. One wonders if he might be working on just such a thing for himself.
He seems too angry, irrational, vengeful to be working productively on something like that. But, if he were given something like that it should resolve the conflict, at least for the time being.

Of course, the skinjobs used tech bribery to buy peace like that before and it only bought, what, 40 years of peace, and it caused larger problems ultimately. I suppose, what happens before, happens again.

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Old February 21 2009, 12:23 AM   #343
kipron
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

So..the Final Five were wiped of their memories, and forced to live among humans by the one `jealous' Cylon.

So maybe..the one jealous `God' forced the other Lords of Kobol to live among humans as well. Hmmm.
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Old February 21 2009, 01:31 AM   #344
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

So were there 13 lords of kobol, instead of 12?


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Old February 21 2009, 01:35 AM   #345
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Re: Battlestar Galactica 4x15: "No Exit"

^ I believe so. I've always understood that to be the case.
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