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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old February 14 2009, 05:12 AM   #1411
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Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

Cicero wrote: View Post
Are persons from the Isle of Man, the Isle of Wight, the Hebrides, the Orkney Islands, the Shetland Islands, the Scilly Isles, or the Channel Islands considered British? The archipelago is known as the British Isles, but, for some reason, the term British seem to only apply to persons from the largest island in the group. Is this merely the strangeness of Irish nationalism damaging the rationality of the lexicon?
I doubt that many Manx folks consider themselves really British. Orkney and Shetland are populated primarily by Scots. Those on the Scilly Isles are mostly of Cornish descent - though Cornwall has long since been absorbed, some would say subsumed, by England. The Channel Islands are an interesting case, as they are self-governing British Crown Dependencies, not part of the United Kingdom proper. The British label would probably apply more to them than the others, however.

In general terms, "British" in its modern context is generally applied to the English, Welsh and Cornish peoples. The Scots and the Irish tend to disdain the term, with varying degrees of vehemence. Culturally, Ireland and England have always had separate identities, even in the North, and Scotland shares more with her cousins across the Irish Sea than she does her southern neighbors.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:52 AM   #1412
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Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

I am perpetually perplexed by how so few people in so small small a space of land can make so much of such small differences, and get along with such disdain and dislike for persons who are basically the same.
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Old February 14 2009, 06:07 AM   #1413
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Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

Well, this certainly isn't the thread to get into that discussion. It's long and sordid, but it boils down to this: when one people group forcibly, violently takes advantage of another, though the violence may end, the resentment will linger for generation upon generation.
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Old February 14 2009, 10:41 AM   #1414
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Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

^ The English-Irish antipathy (nevermind the other subgroups of the isles) predates the most recent period of one island's domination (and suppression) of the other. But, yes, I meant to express an observation about humanity, not the people of particular islands (ergo my comment was phrased generally).
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Old February 14 2009, 06:48 PM   #1415
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Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

Cicero wrote: View Post
Are persons from the Isle of Man, the Isle of Wight, the Hebrides, the Orkney Islands, the Shetland Islands, the Scilly Isles, or the Channel Islands considered British? The archipelago is known as the British Isles, but, for some reason, the term British seem to only apply to persons from the largest island in the group. Is this merely the strangeness of Irish nationalism damaging the rationality of the lexicon?
Actually, the term 'British Isles' isn't popularlarly or commonly used in Ireland, nor does it make any geographical sense. Nothing to do with the 'strangeness' of Irish nationalism, it's a simple fact that Ireland isn't British. Even Northern Ireland, while part of the UK, isn't part of Great Britain - the United Kingdom is of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Ergo, even NI isn't technically British, even if most of its citizens choose to have British nationality (which they're perfectly entitled to do, AFAIC).

And as has been pointed out elsewhere, many people in Scotland, Wales and the Isle of Man don't regard themselves as British. But I really don't want to hijack the thread any further. Suffice it to say, that while regarding myself as Irish, I have no disdain or dislike for English, Scottish, or Welsh people or for Northern Unionists. Generalisations such as the ones you've made aren't helpful.
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Old February 14 2009, 06:59 PM   #1416
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Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

^
Yeah, what he said. :-)

My father was a first-generation Irish-American Catholic, and my mother was an Irish protestant. I was born in Belfast, was raised in the US, Northern Ireland, and the Republic, and later spent a couple years living in London, Manchester and Dumbarton. I hold US, Irish and UK passports (though the latter rarely sees use). You'd be hard pressed to find a "label" for me in all that (though it's definitely not British, heh). One of the good things about being American - it covers a lot of ground.

...and now back to your regularly scheduled casting thread...
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Old February 14 2009, 07:12 PM   #1417
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Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
^
Yeah, what he said. :-)

My father was a first-generation Irish-American Catholic, and my mother was an Irish protestant. I was born in Belfast, was raised in the US, Northern Ireland, and the Republic, and later spent a couple years living in London, Manchester and Dumbarton. I hold US, Irish and UK passports (though the latter rarely sees use). You'd be hard pressed to find a "label" for me in all that (though it's definitely not British, heh). One of the good things about being American - it covers a lot of ground.

...and now back to your regularly scheduled casting thread...
I count myself as European

Um yeah, casting for characters in the books!!!

How about Stephen Fry for the voice of Dr Ree, also, I know, a bit of British bias here, how about Ray Winston (with an American accent) for Antin "Grim" Vargo from Before Dishnour sound?
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Old February 14 2009, 07:42 PM   #1418
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Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

^I absolutely love Stephen Fry, so no complaints here. Jeeves & Wooster was a favourite program when I was young. Not quite sure who I hear for Ree, though.
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Old February 14 2009, 07:45 PM   #1419
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Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

TJ Sinclair wrote: View Post
^I absolutely love Stephen Fry, so no complaints here. Jeeves & Wooster was a favourite program when I was young. Not quite sure who I hear for Ree, though.
I hear him in an upper class English accent, can go between Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie and occasionally Anthony Head!
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Old February 14 2009, 08:46 PM   #1420
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Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
Cicero wrote: View Post
Are persons from the Isle of Man, the Isle of Wight, the Hebrides, the Orkney Islands, the Shetland Islands, the Scilly Isles, or the Channel Islands considered British? The archipelago is known as the British Isles, but, for some reason, the term British seem to only apply to persons from the largest island in the group. Is this merely the strangeness of Irish nationalism damaging the rationality of the lexicon?
Actually, the term 'British Isles' isn't popularlarly or commonly used in Ireland, nor does it make any geographical sense. Nothing to do with the 'strangeness' of Irish nationalism, it's a simple fact that Ireland isn't British. Even Northern Ireland, while part of the UK, isn't part of Great Britain - the United Kingdom is of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Ergo, even NI isn't technically British, even if most of its citizens choose to have British nationality (which they're perfectly entitled to do, AFAIC).
All islands of the archipelago are British by technicality. Britain was not until recently a short form of Great Britain, but the collective name of the islands. They were originally (so far as known) named this (Brettaniai) by the Greek traveler Pythieas in 320 BCE, and the name carried forward through Roman times (Brittannia, later Britannia), and through several variants in French and English until its present (rather Latinesque) form. The name is believed to originate with a Celtic word something along the lines of Pretani (the indigenous Celts name for the people of the British Isles).

The tradition of naming the island containing England, Scotland, and Wales Great Britain is relatively recent, and itself only denotes that the island is the largest of the island group. The ancient (as far back as Roman times) names of the major islands were Albion (Great Britain) and Hibernia (Ireland).


And as has been pointed out elsewhere, many people in Scotland, Wales and the Isle of Man don't regard themselves as British. But I really don't want to hijack the thread any further. Suffice it to say, that while regarding myself as Irish, I have no disdain or dislike for English, Scottish, or Welsh people or for Northern Unionists. Generalisations such as the ones you've made aren't helpful.
The two statements weren't directly connected. My comment regarding Irish nationalism related just to the words, and my observation on human conflict was inspired by another poster's mention of the emnity between some of the peoples of the two islands (but, again, wasn't specifically about the situation in the British Isles).
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Last edited by Radio Cicero Rockettes; February 14 2009 at 09:48 PM.
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Old February 14 2009, 08:53 PM   #1421
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Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

Cicero wrote: View Post
Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
Cicero wrote: View Post
Are persons from the Isle of Man, the Isle of Wight, the Hebrides, the Orkney Islands, the Shetland Islands, the Scilly Isles, or the Channel Islands considered British? The archipelago is known as the British Isles, but, for some reason, the term British seem to only apply to persons from the largest island in the group. Is this merely the strangeness of Irish nationalism damaging the rationality of the lexicon?
Actually, the term 'British Isles' isn't popularlarly or commonly used in Ireland, nor does it make any geographical sense. Nothing to do with the 'strangeness' of Irish nationalism, it's a simple fact that Ireland isn't British. Even Northern Ireland, while part of the UK, isn't part of Great Britain - the United Kingdom is of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Ergo, even NI isn't technically British, even if most of its citizens choose to have British nationality (which they're perfectly entitled to do, AFAIC).
All islands of the archipelago are British by technicality. Britain was not until recently a short form of Great Britain, but the collective name of the islands. They were originally (so far as known) named this (Brettaniai) by the Greek traveler Pythieas in 320 BCE, and the name carried forward through Roman times (Brittannia, later Britannia), and through several variants in French and English until its present (rather Latinesque) form. The name is believed to originate with a Celtic word something along the lines of Pretani (the indigenous Celts name for the people of the British Isles).

The tradition of naming the island containing England, Scotland, and Wales Great Britain is relatively recent, and itself only denotes that the island is the largest of the island group. The ancient (as far back as Roman times) names of the major islands were Albion (Great Britain) and Hibernia (Ireland).


And as has been pointed out elsewhere, many people in Scotland, Wales and the Isle of Man don't regard themselves as British. But I really don't want to hijack the thread any further. Suffice it to say, that while regarding myself as Irish, I have no disdain or dislike for English, Scottish, or Welsh people or for Northern Unionists. Generalisations such as the ones you've made aren't helpful.
The two statements weren't directly connected. My comment regarding Irish nationalism related just to the words, and my observation on human conflict was inspired by another poster's mention of the emnity between some of the peoples of the two islands (but, again, wasn't specifically about the situation in the British Isles).[/quote]

Does it really matter and should it be in this thread?

May I say, I'm sorry for causing this tangent to occur, I had a bee in my bonniet which I can't actually remember the reason for, so, lets get this back on topic as I doubt anyone's that interested in how the British have been complete c***s towards pretty much everyone over the course of the centuries and the dislike which has occured.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Can we limit discussion in the casting thread to casting suggestions, please? The thread is huge enough without off-topic digressions.
Yeah, what he said
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Old February 19 2009, 08:21 AM   #1422
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Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

wow....too many pages to read through :boggle: tho i skimmed several.

i've seen renders of Joe Flanigan as Mackenzie Calhoun and i totally agree.

one person i've mentally had cast for awhile - Charlize Theron as SCE's Domenica Corsi. she's got the looks, the presence, and i know she could pull off the role. (not that we'd ever get an SCE movie but i can dream right?? :P)
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Old February 19 2009, 06:53 PM   #1423
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Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

Cheile wrote: View Post
Charlize Theron as SCE's Domenica Corsi.
Hmmmm.... I don't know what Keith will say to that, but I like it very much.
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Old February 19 2009, 07:56 PM   #1424
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Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

Theron isn't remotely who I had in mind, but I bet she could pull the role off..............
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Old February 19 2009, 10:07 PM   #1425
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Re: Cast the Characters of Trek Literature

^ I agree. Theron has the right kind of Nordic beauty and also the height (5'10") and the force of personality (she really is a superb actor of great intelligence and nuance).
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