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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old February 14 2009, 04:55 PM   #61
TheGodBen
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

kimc wrote: View Post
GodBen wrote: View Post
and the way Tuvok assembles everyone and describes how he solved the case is silly.
You haven't read much Sherlock Holmes, have you? The assembly of interested parties to announce the murderer and how the investigator got there is classic mystery fare.
I know that, but this is Star Trek and not Sherlock Holmes so it came off as incredibly cheesy, at least to me. If you are going to do an homage to Sherlock Holmes then you have to give a wink to the audience, if you play it like straight-up drama then it comes off as cliché.
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Old February 14 2009, 05:32 PM   #62
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
GodBen wrote: View Post
and the way Tuvok assembles everyone and describes how he solved the case is silly.
You haven't read much Sherlock Holmes, have you? The assembly of interested parties to announce the murderer and how the investigator got there is classic mystery fare.
I know that, but this is Star Trek and not Sherlock Holmes so it came off as incredibly cheesy, at least to me. If you are going to do an homage to Sherlock Holmes then you have to give a wink to the audience, if you play it like straight-up drama then it comes off as cliché.
So if you were doing that episode how would you give a wink to the audience?
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Old February 14 2009, 05:55 PM   #63
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

kimc wrote: View Post
So if you were doing that episode how would you give a wink to the audience?
If I was writing it I wouldn't have done the scene at all.
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Old February 14 2009, 06:05 PM   #64
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
So if you were doing that episode how would you give a wink to the audience?
If I was writing it I wouldn't have done the scene at all.
So how would you have wound up the episode?
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Old February 14 2009, 09:47 PM   #65
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Tuvok could have mentioned that an ancestor of his maintained that when everything implausible is eliminated, whatever remains, however impossible... demands you assemble all the suspects for a big reveal.
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Old February 15 2009, 03:32 AM   #66
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^ THAT would have been fabulous. And it would have been kind of a wink at Data, too.
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Old February 15 2009, 07:45 AM   #67
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Jeri wrote: View Post
I like "Ex Post Facto"; it has a dog in it, who wins the day. That is a great feature.

And the woman has feathers for hair. She's a mala right out of a telenovela; a perfect vilana type. I just don't know why the dog didn't bite her; that would have been more like it. Dogs know. But vilanas can get away with murder -- except not this time.

It's kind of in the vein of a "torture Paris" episode; he sort of inherited the venerable "torture O'Brien" legacy. Paris is my favorite, so I thoroughly enjoy seeing so much of him.

Seriously, the ability they have of seeing through someone else's eyes is fascinating. I would love to do that.
I like it too. A good detective story and a good Tuvok story as well. I like the way he solves the problem.

The only thing that I find a bit odd is actually the dog. I mean, there are dogs on the other side of the galaxy. Hmmmm.............

They should have made it a crossing between a dog and a lizard or something like that, something more "alien".

I actually re-watched "Parallax" and "Time And Again" yesterday and found an odd thing in "Time And Again" (OK, I've noticed that one before but never brought it up for discussion).

In "Caretaker", The Doctor is treating Kes when she comes on board the ship. He also treats Torres for the strange disease which she and Kim got after being kidnapped by the Caretaker.

In "Time And Again", The Doctor seem surprised that "Kes's brain wasn't on file". he also seems surprised that another crew (the Maquis) had come on board and that no one had told him about the newcomers. But shouldn't he have noticed that already in "Caretaker". Not to mention that he did interact with Kes in "Parallax" too and according to the stardates, there were almost exactly two months between the events in "Caretaker" and the events in "Time And Again".

A gllitch in the program or did the good, old Doc suffer from amnesia?
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Old February 15 2009, 07:52 AM   #68
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

One Doctor thing that has always bothered me was the one in Emanations where Kes isolates herself in Doctor's office. Doctor says he cannot get into his office, yet in so many other episodes he walks through force fields without any problems.
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Old February 15 2009, 03:56 PM   #69
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Lynx, the bit about the dog didn't bother me; like the "dogs" of TOS: Enemy Within, I figure they just stand in for whatever companion animal an alien might have. I made my peace with that about 40 years ago. It's what we've got to work with here on the third rock.

Don't recall about the other question -- I'll have to give it a look next time.
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Old February 15 2009, 05:32 PM   #70
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

Lynx wrote: View Post
The only thing that I find a bit odd is actually the dog. I mean, there are dogs on the other side of the galaxy. Hmmmm.............
That's because dogs are in the process of taking over the universe. I have a little tyrant of my own in fact.
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Old February 16 2009, 02:24 AM   #71
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

kimc wrote: View Post
GodBen wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
So if you were doing that episode how would you give a wink to the audience?
If I was writing it I wouldn't have done the scene at all.
So how would you have wound up the episode?
I suppose I'd do the realistic thing and bring the evidence to the main policeman guy, whatever his name was, then maybe they could set a trap and have the doctory man walk into it. Then I would end the episode by having Neelix attacked by a poisonous snake. For the kids.

If I had written this episode then it would have focused on Paris and his forced memories, I wouldn't have turned it into an investigation story half-way through the episode.

Praetor wrote:
Tuvok could have mentioned that an ancestor of his maintained that when everything implausible is eliminated, whatever remains, however impossible... demands you assemble all the suspects for a big reveal.
Now that's a fun idea I can get behind.


Emanations (*½)

I read somewhere that Brannon Braga is an atheist and speaks at atheist conferences (there are atheist conferences?) so I guess this episode plays into that a little bit. As an atheist myself I think this is an interesting idea for an episode; a society who have an absolute certainty about the afterlife, but it turns out that they end up as decaying corpses on lifeless asteroids.

The problem is that the episode feels very scattered and failed to hold my interest largely due to some goofy performances by the guest roles. Then the episode ends by suggesting that there is strange energy patterns in the asteroid field which is probably a sign that these aliens really do go to an afterlife, which is a complete about-face on what the episode had been until that point. I come away from this episode not knowing what it was about.

This is another episode which could have been done on TNG, but it does contain Harry's first death, something he will experience a couple more times before Voyager finishes her journey.
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Old February 16 2009, 02:33 AM   #72
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

^ I usually skip this episode when re-watching the series. I'm guessing you're not going to get too many arguments on this one.
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Old February 16 2009, 02:35 AM   #73
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

GodBen wrote: View Post
Emanations (*½)

This is another episode which could have been done on TNG, but it does contain Harry's first death, something he will experience a couple more times before Voyager finishes her journey.
Agreed; meh episode.

Are we adding Harry Death Count to the Torpedo Count and Shuttle Count?
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Old February 16 2009, 02:44 AM   #74
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

'Emanations' sucked but the themes and basic idea were very interesting. It's a shame it flopped. They really probably should have forced themselves to filter when coming up with an episode: 'Would we/could we have done this on TNG?' If yes, the next question would be 'Is it worth telling this story on Voyager?' an 9 out of 10 times, that answer should have been no. Only when the story was worthwhile should it have slipped through.

'Emanations' is important because it is (I believe) the first episode to reinforce my one rule of 'Voyager':
The universe hates Harry Kim.

When you accept and watch with this in mind, everything about Voyager makes more sense. Seriously, try it.
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Old February 16 2009, 02:41 PM   #75
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Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager

A good thing about Emanations is the character of Hatil Garan; he's a sympathetic figure, and indeed I think his re-examination of their culture's beliefs is the point of the story. It's very satisfying that Harry gets to save this fellow.
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