Stargazer question

Mr. Laser Beam · February 7 2009, 06:51 PM

I got to thinking of this when I read the "Picard's rank?" thread, in the TNG forum.

AFAIK, the Stargazer series states that Picard - a Lt. Cmdr. at the time - was made the Captain of the ship when its original CO (Daithan Ruhalter) was killed, and the original XO (Stephen Leach) wounded and comatose. Can this really be true, though? An early TNG episode - might have been the pilot, I can't remember - mentioned that Picard was once an XO. (Something about Riker's refusal to let Picard beam down to a planet. Riker says that because Picard was once an XO himself, he'd understand the reasoning behind it.)

So even after the Stargazer's two most senior officers were out of action, Picard couldn't have immediately become Captain, because we'd already been told he spent some time as an XO first. Do the novels explain this?

Mike Winters · February 7 2009, 06:57 PM

Babaganoosh wrote:

I got to thinking of this when I read the "Picard's rank?" thread, in the TNG forum.

AFAIK, the Stargazer series states that Picard - a Lt. Cmdr. at the time - was made the Captain of the ship when its original CO (Daithan Ruhalter) was killed, and the original XO (Stephen Leach) wounded and comatose. Can this really be true, though? An early TNG episode - might have been the pilot, I can't remember - mentioned that Picard was once an XO. (Something about Riker's refusal to let Picard beam down to a planet. Riker says that because Picard was once an XO himself, he'd understand the reasoning behind it.)

So even after the Stargazer's two most senior officers were out of action, Picard couldn't have immediately become Captain, because we'd already been told he spent some time as an XO first. Do the novels explain this?

I do not remember any reference to Picard being referred to as an XO by Riker at all. Looking at Memory Alpha which uses primarily filmed Trek as its source (thus the dreaded Canon word), it doesn't refer to him ever being an XO.

Mike

Brendan Moody · February 7 2009, 07:06 PM

^No, Babaganoosh is right. There's a scene in "Encounter at Farpoint" where Picard and Riker discuss the right of a captain to participate in away missions, and Riker says "Having been a first officer yourself, you know that assuming that responsibility must by definition include the safety of the captain."

Mike Winters · February 7 2009, 07:08 PM

I guess it is one of the many cases where the show reversed itself, or perhaps Riker was mistaken, assuming Picard had been a First Officer since he was now a Captain. It would be understandable for one to assume a Captain had once been an XO.

Mr. Laser Beam · February 7 2009, 07:16 PM

Mike Winters wrote:

I guess it is one of the many cases where the show reversed itself, or perhaps Riker was mistaken, assuming Picard had been a First Officer since he was now a Captain. It would be understandable for one to assume a Captain had once been an XO.

I would think that if Riker had gotten it wrong, Picard would have corrected him.

Brendan Moody · February 7 2009, 07:18 PM

And there isn't any evidence that the show reversed itself. What little Stargazer/Picard backstory is actually given onscreen doesn't prevent his having served as a first officer; it's the elaborated version in the novels that rules it out.

elaithin · February 7 2009, 07:19 PM

Doesn't the show also refer to his having become a Captain very young?

Brendan Moody · February 7 2009, 07:26 PM

^In "Conspiracy" Picard says that Tryla Scott made captain faster than anyone else, "present company included," which suggests that he made captain fairly young, but still doesn't rule out brief first officer service.

Jean-Luc Picard · February 7 2009, 08:23 PM

Picard was the ship's second officer before becoming captain. He pretty much did the job of an XO.

William Leisner · February 7 2009, 09:42 PM

Wouldn't the first officer, technically speaking, become captain upon the CO's death, regardless of his capacity to carry out that duty? And thus, wouldn't Picard have technically been the ship's second in command, acting in Leach's stead while he was out of commission?

elaithin · February 7 2009, 09:56 PM

Mmmn... tenuous, but it could work.

captcalhoun · February 7 2009, 10:13 PM

not tenuos or 'technically' true. from what we've previously seen in Trek, it's true.

Mr. Laser Beam · February 8 2009, 06:23 AM

William Leisner wrote:

Wouldn't the first officer, technically speaking, become captain upon the CO's death, regardless of his capacity to carry out that duty? And thus, wouldn't Picard have technically been the ship's second in command, acting in Leach's stead while he was out of commission?

Could be. I don't remember whether Ruhalter's death or Leach's coma came first. If it was both at the same time, then the above couldn't happen, because Picard (as the next senior officer) would go straight to being CO.

Jean-Luc Picard wrote:

Picard was the ship's second officer

I thought that was Jack Crusher.

But I suppose Picard could have become that, after Jack's death.

Trent Roman · February 8 2009, 06:52 AM

^ Crusher only joined the crew much later into timeline, by which point Picard had already been captain for quite a while.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

shanejayell · February 8 2009, 06:58 AM

Could Picard have been a XO on a ship BEFORE Stargazer?

February 7 2009, 06:51 PM	#1
Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Location: The visitor's bullpen	Stargazer question I got to thinking of this when I read the "Picard's rank?" thread, in the TNG forum. AFAIK, the Stargazer series states that Picard - a Lt. Cmdr. at the time - was made the Captain of the ship when its original CO (Daithan Ruhalter) was killed, and the original XO (Stephen Leach) wounded and comatose. Can this really be true, though? An early TNG episode - might have been the pilot, I can't remember - mentioned that Picard was once an XO. (Something about Riker's refusal to let Picard beam down to a planet. Riker says that because Picard was once an XO himself, he'd understand the reasoning behind it.) So even after the Stargazer's two most senior officers were out of action, Picard couldn't have immediately become Captain, because we'd already been told he spent some time as an XO first. Do the novels explain this? __________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

February 7 2009, 07:06 PM	#3
Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Location: Providence	Re: Stargazer question ^No, Babaganoosh is right. There's a scene in "Encounter at Farpoint" where Picard and Riker discuss the right of a captain to participate in away missions, and Riker says "Having been a first officer yourself, you know that assuming that responsibility must by definition include the safety of the captain." __________________ The Stars at Noonday

February 7 2009, 07:08 PM	#4
Mike Winters Lieutenant Commander Location: Bensalem, PA	Re: Stargazer question I guess it is one of the many cases where the show reversed itself, or perhaps Riker was mistaken, assuming Picard had been a First Officer since he was now a Captain. It would be understandable for one to assume a Captain had once been an XO.

February 7 2009, 07:18 PM	#6
Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Location: Providence	Re: Stargazer question And there isn't any evidence that the show reversed itself. What little Stargazer/Picard backstory is actually given onscreen doesn't prevent his having served as a first officer; it's the elaborated version in the novels that rules it out. __________________ The Stars at Noonday

February 7 2009, 07:19 PM	#7
elaithin Fleet Captain Location: Texas	Re: Stargazer question Doesn't the show also refer to his having become a Captain very young? __________________ Your immediate female ancestor belonged to the Cricetinae subfamily of rodents, and your immediate male ancestor was redolent of Sambucus nigra.

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February 7 2009, 07:26 PM	#8
Brendan Moody Vice Admiral Location: Providence	Re: Stargazer question ^In "Conspiracy" Picard says that Tryla Scott made captain faster than anyone else, "present company included," which suggests that he made captain fairly young, but still doesn't rule out brief first officer service. __________________ The Stars at Noonday

February 7 2009, 08:23 PM	#9
Jean-Luc Picard Lieutenant	Re: Stargazer question Picard was the ship's second officer before becoming captain. He pretty much did the job of an XO. __________________ "There...are...four...lights!"

February 7 2009, 09:42 PM	#10
William Leisner Scribbler Location: Minneapolis, MN	Re: Stargazer question Wouldn't the first officer, technically speaking, become captain upon the CO's death, regardless of his capacity to carry out that duty? And thus, wouldn't Picard have technically been the ship's second in command, acting in Leach's stead while he was out of commission?

February 7 2009, 09:56 PM	#11
elaithin Fleet Captain Location: Texas	Re: Stargazer question Mmmn... tenuous, but it could work. __________________ Your immediate female ancestor belonged to the Cricetinae subfamily of rodents, and your immediate male ancestor was redolent of Sambucus nigra.

February 7 2009, 10:13 PM	#12
captcalhoun Admiral Location: gone	Re: Stargazer question not tenuos or 'technically' true. from what we've previously seen in Trek, it's true.

February 8 2009, 06:52 AM	#14
Trent Roman Rear Admiral Location: The Palace of Pernicious Pleasures	Re: Stargazer question ^ Crusher only joined the crew much later into timeline, by which point Picard had already been captain for quite a while. Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman __________________ Obdurants and Amusings - Behind the Shampoo Curtain

February 8 2009, 06:58 AM	#15
shanejayell Captain Location: BC, Canada	Re: Stargazer question Could Picard have been a XO on a ship BEFORE Stargazer?