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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old February 5 2009, 12:51 PM   #61
Timo
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Re: List of Federation Members

One might assume that the Universal Translator would have a set policy for avoiding conflicts and confusion of this sort - which in practice might mean referring to a species as well as their homeworld and language by the human name of their star, since in theory the star names would be unconflicted.

This would explain things like Deltans or Sheliak just fine - while a select few species, either encountered early on before the introduction of the UT or then allowed to educate the world as to their indigenous naming systems, would form an acceptable exception. But this would also sort of imply that there would be only one Krios where Kriosians lived and spoke Kriosian...

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Old February 5 2009, 01:55 PM   #62
Stevil2001
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Re: List of Federation Members

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, going from this entry, I'd say the best word for "united" in this sense would be consociatus. "Federation" is from the Latin word foedus, a league or covenant. And "planets" would be planetae. My Latin's rusty, but maybe something like Foedus Consociatus de Planetae?
Not de. I'm too rusty to be sure what's right in that context, but de does not belong.
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Old February 5 2009, 02:02 PM   #63
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Re: List of Federation Members

Indeed, I guess any preposition in Latin can be assumed to be at least superfluous if not outright in error... Putting "planets" in the possessive form should suffice. That is, if we assume that "planets" is possessive, rather than descriptive.

It's the old "United States of America" problem again. Is it a bunch of States that are United and possessed by / located on the continent of America? Is it a bunch of States located in a nation of America that almost coincidentally sits on the continent of America? Is it a bunch of States defined as America?

United Federation of Planets is unlikely to be a nation named Planets that possesses a Federation. But do the Planets possess the Federation, or does the Federation consist of its Planets? Is this one Federation of Planets out of many, including the Dispersed and the Indifferent?

Semantics like that won't be solved by looking at the English version. But doing it in Latin would require the issues to be solved first...

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Old February 5 2009, 03:25 PM   #64
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Re: List of Federation Members

Well, clearly it's supposed to mean a federation consisting of planets. Another way of phrasing it would be "Planetary Federation."

So what we want is the genitive form of planeta, being used in a partitive sense. And that would be planetae. Unless you go with the earlier Greek form planetes, in which case it would be planetei.

So I think I was close. Maybe something like Foedus Planetae Consociatus or Foedus Planetei Consociatus.
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Old February 5 2009, 05:48 PM   #65
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Re: List of Federation Members

I would just go with Oonitedyay Ederationfay of Anetsplay.
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Old February 5 2009, 08:00 PM   #66
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Re: List of Federation Members

William Leisner wrote: View Post
I would just go with Oonitedyay Ederationfay of Anetsplay.
You speak Tellarite?
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Old February 5 2009, 09:06 PM   #67
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Re: List of Federation Members

Also in regards to the UN aspect, it should be remembered that observer status has been given to various groups, so it is possible that an individual actually is there as a recognized observer.
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Old February 5 2009, 09:40 PM   #68
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Re: List of Federation Members

Guys (especially Chris), I just gotta ask: how do you know so much random information from Star Trek off hand??
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Old February 5 2009, 10:16 PM   #69
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Re: List of Federation Members

It's not all offhand. I consult Memory Alpha and other references a lot. But I've been a Trek fan since I was 5 years old, so I've always been immersed in the universe.
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Old February 5 2009, 11:15 PM   #70
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Re: List of Federation Members

Fair enough.. I did figure Memory Alpha might have helped.. just a little. And I suppose writing Star Trek books requires a good amount of research also.

EDIT: Just noticed I'm a Commander now. When'd that happen?? Sorry, it's an achievment in my eyes!!
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Old February 6 2009, 12:14 AM   #71
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Re: List of Federation Members

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
William Leisner wrote: View Post
I would just go with Oonitedyay Ederationfay of Anetsplay.
You speak Tellarite?

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Old February 6 2009, 12:57 AM   #72
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Re: List of Federation Members

wew wrote: View Post
Also in regards to the UN aspect, it should be remembered that observer status has been given to various groups, so it is possible that an individual actually is there as a recognized observer.
Again, the problem there is that the Federation is a state in its own right, not an IGO. In point of fact, the Federation is just what its name implies -- a federation. It's probably fair to say that it grants a lot more autonomy to its member polities than, say, the US or Canada does today, but the idea of an "observer" member of a federation is legal nonsense.
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Old February 6 2009, 09:16 AM   #73
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Re: List of Federation Members

Should we really put so much weight on the name, though? After all, the real world is full of "People's Democratic Republics" that, well, ain't...

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Old February 6 2009, 09:57 AM   #74
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Re: List of Federation Members

Timo wrote: View Post
Should we really put so much weight on the name, though? After all, the real world is full of "People's Democratic Republics" that, well, ain't...

Timo Saloniemi
What can I say? I operate from the presumption that the Federation is a genuinely benign liberal democracy that, with rare exceptions, is what it says it is and does what it says it does.
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Old February 6 2009, 12:03 PM   #75
Timo
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Re: List of Federation Members

Agreed that the UFP probably is as bona fide as bona fide can be. But essentially, the founders of this thing would be selling old human concepts to a culturally diverse and distant bunch of new allies - so arguably, they might have to invent new words, new concepts and slightly new meanings for their old words and concepts in the process.

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