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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old February 4 2009, 03:57 AM   #1
Aquehonga
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Why was Odo such a lousy bush-league shapeshifter?

As correctly noted by the changeling impersonating Robert Foxworth's admiral character in that 2-parter when the Founders went to San Francisco.

Laas the Louse tried to educate Odo in the ways of shapeshifting, Laas's only positive contribution was that.

Prior to Kid Nausea, err, Laas's failed teaching experience, the Femme-Odo didn't accomplish much in the Teaching-to-Shapeshift Dept either. She was too busy being “Romulan Commander Woman” to Odo's “Spock” to know she was doing.

Odo never pushed his shapeshifting to the max. He could've/should've counter-infiltrated the Dominion, pretended to be a Founder more than effing onceNot to mention imitating Jem'Hadar, Vorta, and Cardassians.

Odo also could've used his authoritah, as a(n ersatz) Founder, to order around Vorta & Jem'Hadar

Back to core-topic: was up with Odo's untapped shapeshiting talent(s), assuming there are any Especially, in particular, Odo's utter failure at impersonating human(oid) faces

At series end it would've been to show Odo shapeshifting into a perfect double of Sisko &/or other DS9 crew. This would show he finally has it & doesn't belong on the Island of Misfit Shapeshifters

2 Herberts {Femme-Odo,Laas} failed at teaching Odo how to be just simply a garden-variety changeling.I'd like to think in the decade Odo's been a Great Linker, that now he can finally imitate human(oid) faces, as well as infernos, clouds & interstellar debris.

I mean, seriously Odo

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Old February 4 2009, 04:06 AM   #2
Robert Maxwell
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Re: Why was Odo such a lousy bush-league shapeshifter?

You sure like your emoticons, don't you?

Odo has a few disadvantages: for one thing, he's young. Although this was no impediment to Laas, it seems like Laas was never under the thumb of a solid. Odo, on the other hand, was pretty much at the mercy of Dr. Mora and the Cardassians for much of his life. Odds are he didn't get to explore his abilities a whole lot under their gentle tutelage. He also hadn't had a lot of exposure to his own kind.

Also, there is no reason to think there isn't some natural talent involved in shapeshifting. Could be he just wasn't naturally that good at it. Laas seemed to be extremely adept, and there were changelings that had no trouble convincingly replacing humans and other solids.
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Old February 4 2009, 04:17 AM   #3
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Re: Why was Odo such a lousy bush-league shapeshifter?

He was taught to shapeshift by a Bajoran. A Bajoran who thought he was goop. I'm surprised he did as good as he did. He learned quicker after meeting the Founders.
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Old February 4 2009, 07:17 AM   #4
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Re: Why was Odo such a lousy bush-league shapeshifter?

For many years, this was a guy who was probably trying not to call attention to the fact he was a shapeshifter. I don't think he practiced behind closed doors and maybe even felt resentful every time he had to do it based on the way they treated him like he was the entertainment early on. I can see his development as a shapeshifter was slowed by this, but also, his straightforward and honest personality may hamper him to some extent. He may not be a guy, er, thing who can fully get into being something other than the identity he'd worked hard to make for himself. The more time he spends with his own people, the more quickly he will "catch up," I'm sure.
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Old February 4 2009, 10:37 AM   #5
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Re: Why was Odo such a lousy bush-league shapeshifter?

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Odo has a few disadvantages: for one thing, he's young. Although this was no impediment to Laas, it seems like Laas was never under the thumb of a solid. Odo, on the other hand, was pretty much at the mercy of Dr. Mora and the Cardassians for much of his life. Odds are he didn't get to explore his abilities a whole lot under their gentle tutelage. He also hadn't had a lot of exposure to his own kind.
I agree with this. Plus, IIRC, Laas first started shapeshifting over a century earlier, whereas Odo started taking on non-gelatinous forms little more than a decade before the series started. So Laas has had a lot more time to practice. Odo is still maturing as a Changeling.
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Old February 4 2009, 12:43 PM   #6
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Re: Why was Odo such a lousy bush-league shapeshifter?

Aquehonga wrote: View Post
As correctly noted by the changeling impersonating Robert Foxworth's admiral character in that 2-parter when the Founders went to San Francisco.

Laas the Louse tried to educate Odo in the ways of shapeshifting, Laas's only positive contribution was that.

Prior to Kid Nausea, err, Laas's failed teaching experience, the Femme-Odo didn't accomplish much in the Teaching-to-Shapeshift Dept either. She was too busy being “Romulan Commander Woman” to Odo's “Spock” to know she was doing.

Odo never pushed his shapeshifting to the max. He could've/should've counter-infiltrated the Dominion, pretended to be a Founder more than effing onceNot to mention imitating Jem'Hadar, Vorta, and Cardassians.

Odo also could've used his authoritah, as a(n ersatz) Founder, to order around Vorta & Jem'Hadar

Back to core-topic: was up with Odo's untapped shapeshiting talent(s), assuming there are any Especially, in particular, Odo's utter failure at impersonating human(oid) faces

At series end it would've been to show Odo shapeshifting into a perfect double of Sisko &/or other DS9 crew. This would show he finally has it & doesn't belong on the Island of Misfit Shapeshifters

2 Herberts {Femme-Odo,Laas} failed at teaching Odo how to be just simply a garden-variety changeling.I'd like to think in the decade Odo's been a Great Linker, that now he can finally imitate human(oid) faces, as well as infernos, clouds & interstellar debris.

I mean, seriously Odo

Your view(s)>
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Old February 5 2009, 02:20 AM   #7
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Re: Why was Odo such a lousy bush-league shapeshifter?

JNG wrote: View Post
For many years, this was a guy who was probably trying not to call attention to the fact he was a shapeshifter. I don't think he practiced behind closed doors and maybe even felt resentful every time he had to do it based on the way they treated him like he was the entertainment early on. I can see his development as a shapeshifter was slowed by this, but also, his straightforward and honest personality may hamper him to some extent. He may not be a guy, er, thing who can fully get into being something other than the identity he'd worked hard to make for himself. The more time he spends with his own people, the more quickly he will "catch up," I'm sure.
Thats how I've always saw it, as well as his youth compared to Laas. That episode got into it a little. Odo saw it as an uncomfortable disturbance. He just wanted to fit in and be accepted, not draw attention to himself as being different.

I'm sure on some level that with his infatuation, and then relationship with Kira, it heightened his need to feel more 'normal' to her.
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Old February 5 2009, 04:05 AM   #8
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Re: Why was Odo such a lousy bush-league shapeshifter?

The future Odo in "Children of Time" nearly perfected how to imitate a face, although it took a few generations to do so. Odo never really seemed all that interested in perfecting his shapeshifting skills. When he first met his people he seemed almost befuddled at the idea that they would spend hours in the form of rock for the sake of experiencing what its like to be a rock.
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Old February 5 2009, 04:12 AM   #9
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Re: Why was Odo such a lousy bush-league shapeshifter?

mythme wrote: View Post
The future Odo in "Children of Time" nearly perfected how to imitate a face, although it took a few generations to do so. Odo never really seemed all that interested in perfecting his shapeshifting skills. When he first met his people he seemed almost befuddled at the idea that they would spend hours in the form of rock for the sake of experiencing what its like to be a rock.
He can't do ears, but he can get all the feathers right on a Tarkelian hawk. Weird.
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Old February 5 2009, 06:56 AM   #10
Navaros
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Re: Why was Odo such a lousy bush-league shapeshifter?

It is obviously simply that way to dumb-down the show for the sake of not confusing the audience. Same reason why the female Founder, Laas, and other Founders always look like Odo even though they hate humanoids and are good shapeshifters, hence that makes no sense whatosever on many levels.

Also, there are more sensible practical implications. It's not like they are gonna give RA's lines to the other actors. That would have been a tragic waste of RA's amazing talents.
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Old February 5 2009, 01:06 PM   #11
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Re: Why was Odo such a lousy bush-league shapeshifter?

At first they said that Odo's less than normal face was the result of him only wanting to look like a basic solid form/it was the best he could do.

Later on, I think they just retconned it so that the smoothface look is the default solid form any changeling automatically assumes when being solid without impersonating someone else. In their DNA, I suppose.
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Old February 5 2009, 02:44 PM   #12
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Re: Why was Odo such a lousy bush-league shapeshifter?

Anwar wrote: View Post
Later on, I think they just retconned it so that the smoothface look is the default solid form any changeling automatically assumes when being solid without impersonating someone else. In their DNA, I suppose.
That might not be far off in logic. It could be a common thing they implant in their biology, a standard image to help connect them with their people. Maybe because they knew he'd spend all his time with solids.
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Old February 6 2009, 01:07 AM   #13
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Re: Why was Odo such a lousy bush-league shapeshifter?

jamestyler wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
Later on, I think they just retconned it so that the smoothface look is the default solid form any changeling automatically assumes when being solid without impersonating someone else. In their DNA, I suppose.
That might not be far off in logic. It could be a common thing they implant in their biology, a standard image to help connect them with their people. Maybe because they knew he'd spend all his time with solids.
Compound this with the fact that humanoid-shape changelings look a lot like humanoids who seeded the Galaxy in "The Chase" (their representitive played by Salome Jens coincidently) - hence we might have the basis of an interesting backstory for a future novel.
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Old February 6 2009, 01:36 AM   #14
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Re: Why was Odo such a lousy bush-league shapeshifter?

I theorized a while back that the Founders were probably one of the first forms of life to emerge as a result of the Progenitors.
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Old February 6 2009, 02:50 AM   #15
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Re: Why was Odo such a lousy bush-league shapeshifter?

mythme wrote: View Post
Compound this with the fact that humanoid-shape changelings look a lot like humanoids who seeded the Galaxy in "The Chase" (their representitive played by Salome Jens coincidently) - hence we might have the basis of an interesting backstory for a future novel.
Thats true, and I never even thought about it. I remember when the female changling showed up and noticing some odd similarities.

Good call
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