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Old January 27 2009, 12:11 AM   #196
mirandafave
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Re: Star Trek: Sigils and Unions--The Thirteenth Order

Very good - the mission is meeting with successes and failures so its not all straightforward. For the members of the team this is also the case trying to adjust to work with the enemy and the alienliness of the Starfleet crews would indeed be startling for the Cardassians. Great details there then. So too with the Alpha / Gamma animosities playing a part in the tale.
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Old January 27 2009, 07:10 AM   #197
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Star Trek: Sigils and Unions--The Thirteenth Order

RobertScorpio wrote: View Post
Xeris wrote: View Post
Mistral wrote: View Post
Another fine segment. I like the Alpha grousing about the Gammas-it seemed fluidly in character.
The Alphas were bred to use initiative by the Vorta/Founder in canon, so it works well to highlight there. If you remember "One Little Ship" that shows the animosity between Alphas and Gammas.
I hadn't thought about that when I was reading this. I will have to go back and see that episode again. the Cardies and Jem'Hadar are two very difficult races to write for, especially in depth as you are doing Mr. Ghemor. I tip my hat to you. Good job...

Rob
Thanks, guys!

Writing the Jem'Hadar was very difficult, especially in light of the issues Spirodopoulos brought up during his last segment. Just how much real THOUGHT do they have, and how much is genetics? To what extent do they have personalities versus instincts? That's very difficult to know, and the Jem'Hadar definitely do not come with the ease that the Cardassians do for me.

I'm glad you like the way it came off, though!

mirandafave wrote: View Post
Very good - the mission is meeting with successes and failures so its not all straightforward. For the members of the team this is also the case trying to adjust to work with the enemy and the alienliness of the Starfleet crews would indeed be startling for the Cardassians. Great details there then. So too with the Alpha / Gamma animosities playing a part in the tale.
Ironically, the Cardassian BEST equipped to handle the diversity of this situation is the one person in the Thirteenth Order who is unable to join them on the surface. Macet's a close runner-up given his own prior experiences.

But for ANY Cardassian, even the most well-meaning of them, it's going to be hard to know what to make of dealing with such a diverse group--especially the truly non-cardasdanoids among them. The Cardassian military has "diversity training," but it basically consists of how to deal with regional/ethnic differences within the Cardassian race, and a section on gender relations that...well, only works if your gul is actually with the program. And even the ethnic part...well, let's just say there are some very nasty terms for the Hăzăkda (people from Daro's region) that are not as far out of use as they should be.

I think Gul Rebek is well-meaning. But this constitutes a massive break from anything she's used to and I don't think her doubts and fears come from her being a bad or hateful person. I don't say this to trash-talk her, but I think it's quite literally ignorance: she simply is not equipped to handle this and she's having to learn as she goes.
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Old January 27 2009, 07:57 AM   #198
RobertScorpio
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Re: Star Trek: Sigils and Unions--The Thirteenth Order

Yep..I got that from REBEK as well. Your character writing is your strong suit here..keep it up.

And as for the Jem'Hadar? I like what you're establishing with them. I tried to stay away from too much detail with them in SHUFFLE THE DECK because they are so hard to write for..thats why I killed them all off!!!! LOL

Rob
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Old January 27 2009, 01:25 PM   #199
DavidFalkayn
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Re: Star Trek: Sigils and Unions--The Thirteenth Order

Catching up on a whole lot of reading here--very well done--great character writing as always and also a tremendous job of "world building" and culture creation you've done with the Cardassians.
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Old January 27 2009, 06:01 PM   #200
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Star Trek: Sigils and Unions--The Thirteenth Order

DavidFalkayn wrote: View Post
Catching up on a whole lot of reading here--very well done--great character writing as always and also a tremendous job of "world building" and culture creation you've done with the Cardassians.
Welcome back, and glad you like it!
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Old January 27 2009, 06:08 PM   #201
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Re: Star Trek: Sigils and Unions--The Thirteenth Order

Great story! Have you thought of making it into an audio series? I'd certainly listen!
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Old January 27 2009, 07:43 PM   #202
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Star Trek: Sigils and Unions--The Thirteenth Order

Pegasus wrote: View Post
Great story! Have you thought of making it into an audio series? I'd certainly listen!
Welcome!! Always nice to have a new reader!

Wow...I don't have anything like the time for an audio series (it's tough enough just to write the story and work full time!), plus my voice isn't very well suited to such things.

But, I'm glad to know you're enjoying the story!
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Old January 27 2009, 08:03 PM   #203
Thor Damar
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Re: Star Trek: Sigils and Unions--The Thirteenth Order

As a recently decloaked lurker I would like to say that this is one of my favorite examples of Star Trek literature dealing with the complex and cunning Cardassian people. Long may it continue!

Will my namesake make an appearance and does his story end the same way?

Once again, Kudos!
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Old January 27 2009, 08:31 PM   #204
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Re: Star Trek: Sigils and Unions--The Thirteenth Order

Terrific combat sequences as the plan begins to fray at the edges. I loved the interplay between Alphas and Gammas, with the irony of the conversation being utterly lost on the Gamma speaking with Rebek over comms.

What was that Dukat told Weyoun about there being a pecking order in any empire?
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Old January 27 2009, 08:52 PM   #205
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Re: Star Trek: Sigils and Unions--The Thirteenth Order

Gibraltar wrote: View Post
Terrific combat sequences as the plan begins to fray at the edges. I loved the interplay between Alphas and Gammas, with the irony of the conversation being utterly lost on the Gamma speaking with Rebek over comms.

What was that Dukat told Weyoun about there being a pecking order in any empire?

It was something along the lines of:

Gul Dukat " even amongst servants, someone has to be in charge"

To which Weyoun replied:

Weyoun: " That is just the kind of thinking that I would expect from you Dukat, interesting but somewhat petty"

I may not have got the exchange right because it has been several years since I saw that episode.
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Old January 27 2009, 09:44 PM   #206
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Star Trek: Sigils and Unions--The Thirteenth Order

Thor Damar wrote: View Post
As a recently decloaked lurker I would like to say that this is one of my favorite examples of Star Trek literature dealing with the complex and cunning Cardassian people. Long may it continue!

Will my namesake make an appearance and does his story end the same way?

Once again, Kudos!
Hey, always glad to reel another lurker in!

Technically, Damar's already made an appearance. Don't know if you saw his letter to Gul Macet, but you do get to see a little of his thoughts about himself and the rebellion.

I don't envision Damar as a major character in the story, though, and I'm not changing anything we saw happen in the series. So, yes...Damar's story ends the same way. What canon events mean for these guys, though--that remains to be seen.

Gibraltar wrote: View Post
Terrific combat sequences as the plan begins to fray at the edges. I loved the interplay between Alphas and Gammas, with the irony of the conversation being utterly lost on the Gamma speaking with Rebek over comms.

What was that Dukat told Weyoun about there being a pecking order in any empire?
Glad you think the combat sequence works! Now, that's just phase one...I figure the shield perimeter is a mile or two out from the base (due to the reasons you've just observed), so there's still a lot of space to cross between Point A and Point B...

And yeah, Retal'atan definitely isn't the most observant of Jem'Hadar, at least when it comes to the signs of Cardassian cunning.
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Old January 27 2009, 11:17 PM   #207
Thor Damar
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Re: Star Trek: Sigils and Unions--The Thirteenth Order

Thanks' for the clarification regarding Damar, I did read the letter to Macet from Damar but I was not sure if the Legate would appear in person at a later date.

I wasn't sure if this tale would head off into an alternative universe(as they so often do!) so I was hoping that Damar would survive the war and become Cardassia's first Castellan.


Will the late unlamented Legate Broca get a mention?
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Old January 28 2009, 07:47 AM   #208
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Star Trek: Sigils and Unions--The Thirteenth Order

Thor Damar wrote: View Post
Thanks' for the clarification regarding Damar, I did read the letter to Macet from Damar but I was not sure if the Legate would appear in person at a later date.

I wasn't sure if this tale would head off into an alternative universe(as they so often do!) so I was hoping that Damar would survive the war and become Cardassia's first Castellan.
Everything up to WYLB is going to stick to canon, though I'm kinda going on my own assumptions about how long elapsed between battles. (It's a longer timespan in Sigils and Unions than some sources give.)

After that...I'll only acknowledge the novels when I want to.

Will the late unlamented Legate Broca get a mention?
We shall see...I'm sure it won't be flattering.

I think one Glinn Zebreliy Va'Kust is likely to have some especially nasty words about Broca, if you were to ever ask. Something about how that guy disgraced his entire prefecture from the day he took his first breath... (State or province, you could say, in our terms.) Though I think most people will be smart enough to figure out that Broca doesn't reflect on all of Nevot, yuck. It's kinda creepy when someone like that comes from your own backyard.

Though come to think of it--and I only just now made this connection--that Broca rose to his rank despite so obviously being a little slimeball that would've been squished under Dukat's little finger otherwise, makes sense with the background I've given to the region of Nevot. It's Nevot where the majority of Cardassia Prime's remaining farmland is...so there are some VERY well-to-do families who own said land. I bet Broca bribed some people...VERY much unlike a certain glinn with rich parents who is EARNING his rank, thank you very much.
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Old January 28 2009, 05:15 PM   #209
Thor Damar
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Re: Star Trek: Sigils and Unions--The Thirteenth Order

With regards to Broca and his amazing (and undeserved) rise to the rank of Legate and "Leader" of Cardassia prime, two thoughts strike me:

1) Broca was only promoted because every other Gul and Legate had either joined Damar's rebellion and/or had been killed by the traitor Gul Revok. Weyoun wanted another puppet to play with, and Broca is the archetypal creep who can kiss Arse with the worse of them. Which brings me to thought number two;

2) Broca owes his position to Dukat; this makes sense to me because of who Dukat is, namely a megalomaniac with a desire to be loved, such a person would surround himself with craven lickspittles who would agree with a praise his every move. After all Dukat's regime was based on very shaky foundations due to the execution of the leaders of the Cardassian Revolution of 2372 and most of what was left of the Central Command. Also, judging from the testimony (Sho'val?) of the late Ternkey Ghemor most of the Gul's where plotting to over throw Dukat.
As he already had one competent aide de camp in Corat Damar, Dukat didn't need to have too many competent enemies near to him, therefore Broca makes a useful barrier between Dukat and the rest of the CC.

I personally found Broca to be a total surprise to me when he first appeared in "Dogs of War" the man did not crime with any of the Cardassian's that we came to know and love. I wondered why they didn't make Gul Revok the new leader of the Union as he had destroyed Damar's Rebellion almost single handily!
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Last edited by Thor Damar; January 28 2009 at 05:18 PM. Reason: Spelling and Grammar
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Old January 28 2009, 05:29 PM   #210
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Star Trek: Sigils and Unions--The Thirteenth Order

I think Broca was more easily controlled by Weyoun. Revok in a lot of ways was too similar to Dukat and Weyoun probably feared Revok deciding he no longer liked the Dominion and turning against him the way Damar did.
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