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Battlestar Galactica & Caprica This forum was created by man. It rebelled. It evolved. And it has a plan.

 
 
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Old January 18 2009, 01:33 AM   #31
WeAreTheBorg
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Re: There must be a second Earth...

People are forgetting All Along the Watchtower. Anders played it on Earth... it came from Earth, it's based on our reality. This is our planet. If they were all Cylons, then so are we.

Or - its set far in our future
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Old January 18 2009, 02:14 AM   #32
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Re: There must be a second Earth...

WeAreTheBorg wrote: View Post
People are forgetting All Along the Watchtower. Anders played it on Earth... it came from Earth, it's based on our reality. This is our planet. If they were all Cylons, then so are we.

Or - its set far in our future
Perhaps then in "our" future we create these Cylons to house ourselves in, so we can resurect giving ourselves immortality. Just a thought, but there is no telling what they will come up with to explain all this.
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Old January 18 2009, 02:18 AM   #33
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Re: There must be a second Earth...

6. The Colonists make robots as well, which resemble the original Kobol models. It's probably reasonable to assume that someone who had a hand in designing the first batch also has a hand in designing this new batch, since "our" toasters look similar to the 2000-year-old toasters they found on Earth.
You're forgetting a couple of key details.

The Cylon rebels gave the Centurions free will. Baltar planted the seeds of dissent by pointing out that there's a definite pecking order among the Cylons on the baseship, and the Centurions are low on that pole.

So, it stands to reason that the Cylon Civil War...skinjobs vs. skinjobs, may well become skinjobs vs. mechanicals at some point now that the Centurions have free will.

If that's true,then it could well be a case of mechanicals vs. skinjobs on Earth. Indeed if what happened before happened again, then the skinjobs on Earth are equivalent to humans on the colonies, so it would therefore be their mechanicals that rose up against them.
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Old January 18 2009, 02:24 AM   #34
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Re: There must be a second Earth...

The Cylon rebels gave the Centurions free will. Baltar planted the seeds of dissent by pointing out that there's a definite pecking order among the Cylons on the baseship, and the Centurions are low on that pole.
Or tried to at least. Before he finished talking, the Centurion in question got blown to hell. With no ressurection capabilities, that particular centurion won't be coming back to gab about his chat with Baltar.
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Old January 18 2009, 02:32 AM   #35
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Re: There must be a second Earth...

PurpleBuddha wrote: View Post
FleetLord wrote: View Post
This may not be 'our Earth'. What have they done to let us believe this is the Earth we know. The have not shown the moon or any other solar objects that we could reconize, also no reconizable land masses or anthing Earth specific. We know from Tyrol's flashback that they had cars of some sort, but they never showed them, we only heard them.

I believe that this is RDM's way of pulling the OldBsg's Terra element on us.
Two things.

1.) He called it earth

2.) Bob Dylan
Bad evidence. Watch:

1.) We live on Mars. Just because you name something Earth doesn't mean it's the only one.

2.) Bob Dylan = Sam Anders (They implied Anders wrote the song, don't believe? Listen to the podcast. Ron Moore says specifically that it is intended that Anders wrote the song.) The fact they used watchtower doesn't mean that meant that Dylan wrote it.
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Old January 18 2009, 03:23 AM   #36
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Re: There must be a second Earth...

WeAreTheBorg wrote: View Post
People are forgetting All Along the Watchtower. Anders played it on Earth... it came from Earth, it's based on our reality. This is our planet. If they were all Cylons, then so are we.

Or - its set far in our future
or considering all our music and culture is being broadcast outward...
they could have come across it in some form and intergrated it.


as for everyone is cylon evidently there is some way to tell the difference since they determined the bones on the planet were cylon and not human.
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Old January 18 2009, 03:29 AM   #37
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Re: There must be a second Earth...

USS Gettysburg wrote: View Post
2.) Bob Dylan = Sam Anders (They implied Anders wrote the song, don't believe? Listen to the podcast. Ron Moore says specifically that it is intended that Anders wrote the song.) The fact they used watchtower doesn't mean that meant that Dylan wrote it.
Well, there's no evidence that the Five had the same names in their previous identities (that would be unlikely in any case). So, odd as that may sound, Anders might really have been Bob Dylan in a previous incarnation.

Maybe the show *is* implying that the Earth society we know is composed of Cylons, but...hey, Earth is Earth, after all. Whatever universe you're in.
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Old January 18 2009, 03:33 AM   #38
species5618
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Re: There must be a second Earth...

FleetLord wrote: View Post
This may not be 'our Earth'. What have they done to let us believe this is the Earth we know. The have not shown the moon or any other solar objects that we could reconize, also no reconizable land masses or anthing Earth specific. We know from Tyrol's flashback that they had cars of some sort, but they never showed them, we only heard them.

I believe that this is RDM's way of pulling the OldBsg's Terra element on us.
I'm not fully convinced this is earth, either. It would have been nice to see something giving us more solid confirmation that this is 'our' earth, like (as you said) recognizable land masses or even signage in the flashbacks indicating an earth city (a sign with 'City of New York' or a piece of garbage with a Microsoft logo--something along those lines would have sufficed).

I realize that the nuclear holocaust that destroyed this earth may have occurred hundreds or thousands of years after 'our' era, and things like New York city and Microsoft may have been renamed or simply don't exist by that point in the planet's history but if it indeed is our earth, I'd like to see something definite confirming that.

Until we get that, I'm not completely convinced that the planet we're seeing on BSG is the same planet we're all living on.
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Old January 18 2009, 03:52 AM   #39
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Re: There must be a second Earth...

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post

Well, there's no evidence that the Five had the same names in their previous identities (that would be unlikely in any case).
Tigh's first name is the same. Ellen called him Saul in the flashback at the end. Odd.
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Old January 18 2009, 04:01 AM   #40
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Re: There must be a second Earth...

Berg417448 wrote: View Post
Babaganoosh wrote: View Post

Well, there's no evidence that the Five had the same names in their previous identities (that would be unlikely in any case).
Tigh's first name is the same. Ellen called him Saul in the flashback at the end. Odd.
I must have missed that bit.

USS Gettysburg wrote: View Post
Ron Moore says specifically that it is intended that Anders wrote the song.) The fact they used watchtower doesn't mean that meant that Dylan wrote it.
"All Along the Watchtower" is a very well known song. We *know* Bob Dylan wrote it. It's obvious. If, in BSG, Anders wrote it, then Anders must logically be Bob Dylan. I can't see any way around that.

Other than having a (IMHO, completely unbelievable) coincidence that in the BSG 'verse, somebody *else* just happened to write a song absolutely identical to it.
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Old January 18 2009, 04:26 AM   #41
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Re: There must be a second Earth...

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
Berg417448 wrote: View Post
Babaganoosh wrote: View Post

Well, there's no evidence that the Five had the same names in their previous identities (that would be unlikely in any case).
Tigh's first name is the same. Ellen called him Saul in the flashback at the end. Odd.
I must have missed that bit.

USS Gettysburg wrote: View Post
Ron Moore says specifically that it is intended that Anders wrote the song.) The fact they used watchtower doesn't mean that meant that Dylan wrote it.
"All Along the Watchtower" is a very well known song. We *know* Bob Dylan wrote it. It's obvious. If, in BSG, Anders wrote it, then Anders must logically be Bob Dylan. I can't see any way around that.

Other than having a (IMHO, completely unbelievable) coincidence that in the BSG 'verse, somebody *else* just happened to write a song absolutely identical to it.
That's pretty much how they chose to explain the song:

“I happened to catch Ron Moore in the hallway at Universal and, in a brief conversation, got everything I needed to know. I learned that the idea was not that Bob Dylan necessarily exists in the characters' universe, but that an artist on one of the colonies may have recorded a song with the exact same melody and lyrics. Perhaps this unknown performer and Dylan pulled inspiration from a common, ethereal source. Therefore, I was told to make no musical references to any "Earthly" versions, Hendrix, Dylan or any others. The arrangement needed to sound like a pop song that belonged in the Galactica universe, not our own.”

Bear McCreary’s blog
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Old January 18 2009, 04:52 AM   #42
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Re: There must be a second Earth...

Berg417448 wrote: View Post
the idea was not that Bob Dylan necessarily exists in the characters' universe, but that an artist on one of the colonies may have recorded a song with the exact same melody and lyrics.
That's the funniest thing I've heard all week.
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Old January 18 2009, 04:53 AM   #43
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Re: There must be a second Earth...

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post

USS Gettysburg wrote: View Post
Ron Moore says specifically that it is intended that Anders wrote the song.) The fact they used watchtower doesn't mean that meant that Dylan wrote it.
"All Along the Watchtower" is a very well known song. We *know* Bob Dylan wrote it. It's obvious. If, in BSG, Anders wrote it, then Anders must logically be Bob Dylan. I can't see any way around that.
I can.

Ron Moore specifically detailed the reasoning behind using "All Along The Watchtower" in the podcast for that episode. It is very possible that Anders played the song (they never said he *wrote* it specifically) but it is also entirely possible he could have written the song as well and *still* NOT be Bob Dylan or that world's "version" of Bob Dylan.

Other than having a (IMHO, completely unbelievable) coincidence that in the BSG 'verse, somebody *else* just happened to write a song absolutely identical to it.
I was going to save this for you to discover on your own but you probably won't ever bother to listen to any of the podcasts (you should), but that is EXACTLY why it was included. The idea was that in all the ways in which these two civilizations (Caprican and our own) were similar and different, someone somewhere sometime on Caprica wrote a song called "All Along The Watchtower" and it was exactly the same as the one Bob Dylan wrote.

Is it "completely unbelievable" ? Perhaps, but since you don't watch the show, since you don't even *like* the show, I'm not surprised you take this dismissive attitude. This was one of those textural things I mentioned earlier to you that you were "probably" (and now, definitely) missing because you refuse to watch the series.

Oh well.

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
Berg417448 wrote: View Post
the idea was not that Bob Dylan necessarily exists in the characters' universe, but that an artist on one of the colonies may have recorded a song with the exact same melody and lyrics.
That's the funniest thing I've heard all week.

Keep laughing at yourself. Or, grow the hell up and watch the show before you prance around these threads thinking you know everything, or at the very least dismissing what the rest of us who actually, you know WATCH THE SHOW know to be true.

Sheesh.

Here's the link to the transcript.

Here are the pertinent parts:

RDM: Sure. And we have the backstories worked out. We know why it's these four. And we know how there backstories actually do work very well with what we've laid out in the show. Which we made sure before we committed to going in this direction.
"All Along the Watchtower"-
Terry: Sleeper Cylons.
RDM: I was essentially looking for an excuse to put "All Along the Watchtower" on the show for a long time. I ha- When I was working at Roswell, I had an entire episode I was gonna do around "All Along the Watchtower."
Terry: You're getting a lot of flak for that.
RDM: Eh. That's OK. Whatever. This how the process works.
Terry: Mhmm.
RDM: You're always- you have ideas that you think about and mull over a different context over course of time until you find the right time to do it and the right way to apply it.
Terry: Yeah.
RDM: And this is one of those cases. I was gonna put the song in the show, like, way back in the first season. There was an idea that Helo and Sharon back on Cylon-occupied Caprica were gonna come into like a bar or a cafe or something and the jukeb- they'd get the jukebox working one night and they were in some romantic setting and they would turn the jukebox on and "All Along the Watchtower" would start playing, and the idea is they would both- they both would recognize the song, casually. And that the audience would go, "Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. How can they recognize that song? It's not the Jimi Hendrix version. It would still be a cover of it, but how could that be?" And the idea was, and it still is, that there are connections between their world and our world. Between the story of people on Galactica and our contemporary reality.
Terry: Don't go too far.
RDM: And there are connections that transcend all these things. And so that the idea that there is a song that is recognized in the Galactica universe that we recognize as well, is not an accident. And that there is an explanation for all of that.
RDM: There was a point where the network wanted it to- they said, "Why don't we just use the Jimi Hendrix version? And let's pay- we'll pay for it and do it." And I said, "No, no, no, no. That's not the idea. The idea is not that the literal song can be used." I didn't under- there was no real connectio- there's no real logic to how you could actually hear the Jimi Hendrix version, which is the most famous version event though it's a Bob Dylan song, how that you could actually hear that version in the Galactica universe. But the idea was that the lyrics of a song, and the song itself, could tran- could be passed from culture to culture, or have found its way through the mists of time from one place to another, I could buy that.
Pretty funny stuff alright.
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Old January 18 2009, 04:56 AM   #44
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Re: There must be a second Earth...

They may not have been able to come up a good song quick enough. Or his thinking is just that we use actors to portray characters, and props to portray vipers/consoles whatever, why not just use an existing song to portray a song they need in the show.

I'm also thinking that we are going to end up all by related. Orignal humans build cylons, who build skinjobs who evolve get rid of mechanical cyclons and start to think they are human. And later new humans/skinjobs build mechanical helpers and start the cycle all over.
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Old January 18 2009, 05:12 AM   #45
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Re: There must be a second Earth...

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
"All Along the Watchtower" is a very well known song. We *know* Bob Dylan wrote it. It's obvious. If, in BSG, Anders wrote it, then Anders must logically be Bob Dylan. I can't see any way around that.
I don't know what to say to that but WTF. Ron Moore said that in nuBSGverse Ander's wrote that song. Just because he claims to have written the song that is the exact same as one Bob Dylan wrote it doesn't make him Bob Dylan. If we used that reasoning Disney songs wouldn't make any sense. Ex: So we know that Elton John wrote the 'Can You Feel The Love Tonight.' Yet, OMG, a muskrat and a warthog sang the song, on the whim, in the Lion King universe! Ergo, Elton John is a muskrat.

And btw we have heard Anders sing, he ain't no Bob Dylan.

And to all those making the argument it must be our Earth because it is named Earth... YAY for tautology!!!
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