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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Grade "Star Trek: Destiny: Gods of Night"
Excellent 105 69.08%
Above Average 35 23.03%
Average 8 5.26%
Below Average 2 1.32%
Poor 2 1.32%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 15 2009, 10:02 PM   #376
Kirr
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

I too just finished Gods of Night (and already have book 2 waiting for me). Like the poster above David, I came into this series unspoiled and thought I'd give my 'review' of sorts.

I loved this book. I think all the Trek stuff I've read recently has been fantastic (Kobayashi Maru, Greater Than the Sum). A friend told me to give the Enterprise stuff a try (I wasn't a fan of the series), and not that you couldn't read Destiny without it, but these characters make more sense to me because I've read KM and TGTMD. I loved how the story in the 'past' connects to the story in the 'present', it reminded me of some previous trek attemts at comics and books that connected the generations, only it feels much bigger in scope in Destiny. The problems these characters have are real adult problems (miscarriages & infidelity, to name two) and I love that you're not shying away from taking on those issues. In some ways I feel like Trek novels are doing what the show consistently did (at least when Gene was in charge) pushing the boundaries of what's normally done. Media tie in novels don't normally do these things - yet Trek is.

I loved each part of the story. The Avertine exploring the mystery of the Columbia, and all the while me wondering how it fits in with the story of the Columbia from the past. I really liked how that came together right at the end - though a somewhat unexpected turn with the alien dying. I didn't love the idea of Ezri going into the 'command' track in the DS9 relaunch - but I did enjoy her as a captain here. With a few more familiar faces from DS9, I could really like the idea of an 'Advertine' series (basically the DS9 relaunch brought up to the 'current' timeframe).

The differences between the Columbia timeframe and the NG timeframe were much easier to spot in a book that shows both eras. The MACOs, the procedures - I liked that Mack was able to take those two eras and make it so easy to see how much things have changed (and yet people face the same problems). The rebellion of the Captain's MACOs and what the lengths they were willing to go to was despicable, and I think it ultimately led to the issue going on in the 24th century, as I think the 'city' that had those traitors has somehow been assimilated by the Borg. But that's just my current theory (again, having only read book 1).

There are things I like about Titan and things I'm not crazy about. I still don't feel like all the characters 'work' for me. In general, this whole notion of the 'second officer' that seems very important in recent books is lost on me - yeah, Data was second in command, but it was just basically a 'coverage' thing - his JOB was to navigate the ship. Here we've got Tuvok as second officer and what? Tactical maybe, like he was on Voyager? I'm not even sure. We've got a security officer - shouldn't he be the one on Tactical? I've got the same problem with Picard's 'second officer', but we'll come back to her.

But I like that all is not happy in the world of Riker and Troi. Sure I love these two (they were probably my favorite characters on TNG) but it's good to see them have a real couple fight about a real world problem. Miscarriages happen (my sister-in-law had one, they are fairly common and we don't talk about the effects nearly enough) and sometimes hurt feelings get in the way of two people who love each other. I like it - it's REAL. The doctor is completely insensitive, which I wouldn't stand for in real life, but whatever. By being spurned by Troi, Riker is making a poor choice of finding some comfort (but don't read too much into that word) in the arms of his XO - not a wise choice on his part and I hope it doesn't go too far down that road. What with all the actual Borg attacks, I could have done without the 'training' sequence in the holodeck on Titan. I'd have rather had a 'Q' (that's the Bond 'Q' not the Trek Q) moment where the cyborg guy shows the tech he's been developing instead of doing it in training. In general, I'm just so-so about Titan (not a comment on any author, just the series), just as I've felt for awhile, and while it's nice to see them in the context of this greater story I still feel I wouldn't go out of my way to continue to read this series - and I wish I felt different about it because of my love for Troi/Riker. That said, I like where their story led - and it may well be the most important piece of the puzzle - I think they've found where the 'aliens' from Columbia's past have gone to, and they're the key to closing these pathways somehow. I also suspect these aliens are going to somehow correct Troi's baby issue (convenient that she was on the away mission), but I'm not sure how I'll feel about if it winds up as some Deus Ex Machina. Still, I can't help but notice - girl Riker baby, boy Picard baby - maybe these two families will one day be related.

The Enterprise E stuff is great. I'd love it even more if we hadn't had so many recent 'Enterprise faces the Borg novels' cause let's not mince words, this is a Borg story (just like Greater Than the Sum was). But it's on a huge scale. Things are happening - worlds are being destroyed, and I don't for a second think this is all going to get erased and a reset button hit at the end of this. These changes seem permanent. I liked Crusher and Geordi's talk about Picard's state of mind around the Borg - very insightful. I enjoy Worf as XO, and I like the new security chief. I still hate Miranda. She's still barely able to remain faithful to her husband, who by the way is taking care of her less than 1 year old twins and 5 year old daughter. There is just nothing there that I like. Is it accurate? Sure, there are women like this. Career driven. She is more important than any other consideration. It's a very 'real' portrayal, again, so I don't discredit the author, but I can also say without hesitation that I don't like her. Anyway, the Enterprise story has seen the most action - they're on the front lines of the war against the Borg, and this is no easy fight. Lots of losses, very few 'nick of time' moments, and even then, there are people who sacrifice themselves to save others. That preview chapter at the end of Greater than the Sum is a real indicator of what this series is like - and I LIKE it.

Hell, I LOVED this book. I plan to read book 2 in short order - and by then, I'll probably have picked up book 3 and A Singular Destiny too.
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Old January 15 2009, 10:28 PM   #377
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Kirr wrote: View Post
In general, this whole notion of the 'second officer' that seems very important in recent books is lost on me - yeah, Data was second in command, but it was just basically a 'coverage' thing - his JOB was to navigate the ship. Here we've got Tuvok as second officer and what? Tactical maybe, like he was on Voyager? I'm not even sure. We've got a security officer - shouldn't he be the one on Tactical? I've got the same problem with Picard's 'second officer', but we'll come back to her.
Navigating the ship was the job of Geordi, then Wesley, then a succession of minor guest characters and extras like Rager, Allenby, etc. Data's post was operations manager, the same job Harry Kim held on Voyager. He also functioned as de facto science officer, and was third in command after the captain and first officer -- which is what being a second officer means.

Tactical and security are two different jobs which are conflated onscreen for convenience. Security deals with internal crises and crew/away-team safety; tactical deals with external threats and space combat.

Initially, Ranul Keru handled both security and tactical duties aboard Titan, per Starfleet convention. But after his injury, he had to be on reduced duty and Tuvok took over his tactical responsibilities. Keru is recovered now, but it's still a worthwhile division of labor.


I still hate Miranda. She's still barely able to remain faithful to her husband, who by the way is taking care of her less than 1 year old twins and 5 year old daughter.
She never actually stopped being faithful. The thing with Leybenzon never went beyond flirtation, and it lasted mere weeks before the events of Before Dishonor scuttled it for good. And since they worked things out, everything's been fine between her and Vicenzo, as far as I can recall.
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Old January 16 2009, 04:49 PM   #378
Kirr
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Christopher wrote: View Post
Navigating the ship was the job of Geordi, then Wesley, then a succession of minor guest characters and extras like Rager, Allenby, etc. Data's post was operations manager, the same job Harry Kim held on Voyager. He also functioned as de facto science officer, and was third in command after the captain and first officer -- which is what being a second officer means.

Tactical and security are two different jobs which are conflated onscreen for convenience. Security deals with internal crises and crew/away-team safety; tactical deals with external threats and space combat.

Initially, Ranul Keru handled both security and tactical duties aboard Titan, per Starfleet convention. But after his injury, he had to be on reduced duty and Tuvok took over his tactical responsibilities. Keru is recovered now, but it's still a worthwhile division of labor.
For what it's worth, my issue is less about what Data's job was on Enterprise (ops! knew I didn't have that right) or Keru's or anyone else's - it's more the fact that it's only in recent books that I feel a big deal has been made out of 'second officers' (whereas I'd say it's more important what their actual 'job' is, like Data at ops). I would bet I could go back and reread Q-Squared without seeing a single reference to who is the second officer of Enterprise - yet, it's a very prevalent (and yet, to me unimportant) fact that keeps getting brought up in recent books. But whatever, I can live with it.

Christopher wrote: View Post
She never actually stopped being faithful. The thing with Leybenzon never went beyond flirtation, and it lasted mere weeks before the events of Before Dishonor scuttled it for good. And since they worked things out, everything's been fine between her and Vicenzo, as far as I can recall.
This all depends upon your definition of 'faithful', but I'll go so far as to say that it wasn't just the incident with Leybenzon in BD (which you very handily cleaned up in GttS by the way - in one of the few books I've been 'ok' with Miranda), there's an incident in Gods of Night where she thinks someone is flirting with her on the elevator and she goes to great lengths to say how she's happily married, only to be embarrassed because she wasn't being flirted with (except, then I think we get in the mind of the male from that scene, and I think he was, but whatever) - now perhaps that scene was meant to reinforce the idea that she IS faithful and the Leybenzon incident (which was really just an author error - I love Peter David's work, but an egg is an egg) was just a minor slip - but instead this new scene reinforced my feeling that she's not particularly 'faithful' in that she's much more concerned with people flirting with her than in doing her job. Is it her fault someone's flirting with her? No. But as a married man, my awareness of someone flirting with me is no more than, 'uh, yeah that's nice, whatever, I'm not going to even dignify this with an answer' whereas her response seems more of a case of 'thou doth protest too much'.

That said, to be honest, none of that has ever really been at the heart of my problem with Miranda. I haven't liked her since she first appeared in this relaunch (Resistance? Q&A?), and that was before the 'incident' above. Part of it is that I don't agree with her life choice. She's choosing to leave behind her family of husband, 1-year-old twins, and a 5-year-old so that she can be second officer on the Enterprise. Now, I've got a 2-year-old and a 4-year-old, and my wife worked for the first year of my first son's life before decided she's rather be home - that said, I'm not a 'the woman should be home taking care of the kid' kind of guy. She chose to do that, and I'd have supported her if she wanted to continue to work - and many women can and do do that, but it requires balance. Miranda's choice shows no balance to me. It's all about 'her'.

Let me give you an example. Let's say I was offered the position of Vice President of my company, which means a huge salary, but I had to relocate to Iraq. My wife and kids would never go to Iraq. And the position is indefinate, as long as I want to be VP of this division, that's where I'll be with maybe a 'once a year' trip home, and maybe daily calls to my family. Have I just described Miranda's situation? I think I have, and I'd have NEVER chosen her way. I wouldn't miss my kids growing up, not even for a lot of money. Some people would do that, and Miranda is apparently one of them. Frankly, her choice of this is even worse than what I've described above, because for large sums of money I could at least understand the difficulty - Miranda is essentially choosing this for prestige. Come on, it's presitigious to serve as second officer on the Enterprise E. It's like someone giving up their family to be on American Idol. It rubs me wrong.

Is part of this her husband's fault? I don't remember any more - was he given the choice of joining her on the Enterprise and he turned it down? Then perhaps there's more of a problem in this marriage than mere flirting - because I think there should be some compromise going on here. Could Miranda have found a Starfleet posting closer to home? What's her goal here - indefinate second officer on the flagship, barely ever seeing her kids? Captaincy of her own ship, so she can essentially do the same?

I don't understand her, and I don't like her - but that's ok. She's well written, and I'm ok with the idea that a character on the Enterprise is someone I don't really like. This isn't the first Trek character I haven't liked, won't be the last.
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Old January 16 2009, 05:23 PM   #379
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

^^I don't think Miranda chose her job because of "prestige." She chose it because she's a career scientist, an explorer. That's fundamental to who she is. Her goal isn't to advance her career, it's to discover new worlds and new mysteries of the universe. That's been her life's work, her identity, since long before she became a wife and mother. It's not just a career, it's a calling. Just as it has been for Kirk and Spock and Picard and Riker and so many other Trek characters.
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Old January 16 2009, 05:44 PM   #380
Kirr
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Christopher wrote: View Post
^^I don't think Miranda chose her job because of "prestige." She chose it because she's a career scientist, an explorer. That's fundamental to who she is. Her goal isn't to advance her career, it's to discover new worlds and new mysteries of the universe. That's been her life's work, her identity, since long before she became a wife and mother. It's not just a career, it's a calling. Just as it has been for Kirk and Spock and Picard and Riker and so many other Trek characters.
I understand part of that - yes, she's a career scientist, so she wants to continue with that career. But hey, anyone who's had kids knows, you make sacrifices for them - and you want to. She can't find a ship better suited to her family? A posting closer to home that allows her to keep her 'identity' (again, becoming a parent creates a whole new meaning for 'identity' here - I thought I knew what was important until I had kids) and her family. I do think there is an amount of prestige going on here - because I think she could still have her career and balance it out with her family better - but it's the ENTERPRISE!

For what it's worth, I'll take Miranda (for all her faults and my reasons for disliking her despite every author's attempt to convince me otherwise) over Riker's number 1 on Titan - flawless, overeager, so forgettable I can't remember her name even when I finished Gods of Night only a few days ago (and I've read most of the Titan books too).
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Old January 16 2009, 07:40 PM   #381
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Kirr wrote: View Post
I understand part of that - yes, she's a career scientist, so she wants to continue with that career. But hey, anyone who's had kids knows, you make sacrifices for them - and you want to. She can't find a ship better suited to her family? A posting closer to home that allows her to keep her 'identity' (again, becoming a parent creates a whole new meaning for 'identity' here - I thought I knew what was important until I had kids) and her family. I do think there is an amount of prestige going on here - because I think she could still have her career and balance it out with her family better - but it's the ENTERPRISE!
If you want to do space science in the Federation, there's probably no better place to do it than the Enterprise. To all indications, Starfleet is the most advanced research facility in the UFP.

Besides, it's not just her. She could presumably have her family aboard the Enterprise if she wanted. But her husband refuses to leave his job at the university and go into space with her. You ask why she doesn't make the sacrifice for the sake of family unity -- but you should also ask why he doesn't.
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Old January 16 2009, 08:21 PM   #382
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Kirr wrote: View Post
it's more the fact that it's only in recent books that I feel a big deal has been made out of 'second officers' (whereas I'd say it's more important what their actual 'job' is, like Data at ops).
You're welcome to that feeling, of course, but I don't think it's supported by evidence. And second officer was always Data's position on board, and it was repeatedly stated as thus.


That said, to be honest, none of that has ever really been at the heart of my problem with Miranda. I haven't liked her since she first appeared in this relaunch (Resistance? Q&A?), and that was before the 'incident' above. Part of it is that I don't agree with her life choice. She's choosing to leave behind her family of husband, 1-year-old twins, and a 5-year-old so that she can be second officer on the Enterprise.
Have you read the S.C.E. series? If so, did you have the same problem with Captain Gold, who has had many many more kids during a long career in Starfleet? And, as Christopher pointed out, Vicenzo and the kids could've come onto the Big E, but Vicenzo didn't want to give up his career, either.

It is my considered opinion that if Miranda was a male character, nobody would even be commenting on "leaving the kids behind." And in fact nobody has ever said that about David Gold, who left his wife to raise a lot more children than Miranda Kadohata did her husband. But because she's a woman, it becomes an issue -- which, to be honest, is why I set up the character the way I did, to challenge the expectations. (She first appeared in Q & A, and the character was my creation.)
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Old January 16 2009, 10:16 PM   #383
Kirr
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Christopher wrote: View Post
If you want to do space science in the Federation, there's probably no better place to do it than the Enterprise. To all indications, Starfleet is the most advanced research facility in the UFP.
Maybe. I'd argue that Titan is probably the best place to explore strange new worlds - but I suspect there is plenty of high science going on even close to earth.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Besides, it's not just her. She could presumably have her family aboard the Enterprise if she wanted. But her husband refuses to leave his job at the university and go into space with her. You ask why she doesn't make the sacrifice for the sake of family unity -- but you should also ask why he doesn't.
You're right - and I did ask this question in one of my previous posts. Perhaps he should have. Perhaps more of a compromise should have been reached. Again, this actually comes across to me as MORE of a marriage problem (and I don't buy the 'her career came before her marriage or kids' - well then perhaps she should have thought about that before she went and got married and HAD kids) and perhaps it should be looked at in future books of this series. I know I'm not content with the way it is being portrayed right now.

KRAD wrote: View Post
Have you read the S.C.E. series? If so, did you have the same problem with Captain Gold, who has had many many more kids during a long career in Starfleet? And, as Christopher pointed out, Vicenzo and the kids could've come onto the Big E, but Vicenzo didn't want to give up his career, either.
I haven't read S.C.E. - so, I'm afraid I can't comment, except to say, that I don't think I'd have been in favor of it there anymore than I am here. Christopher gave examples of other Trek characters 'devoted' to their work (Kirk and Spock were used) - but as I recall in all those cases, they weren't married and leaving behind kids. I'll be honest, as a dad, I find this idea crazy for anyone to contemplate who actually is a parent. You think your career defines you, you think lots of other things are important - and then you have kids and discover that they're not.

KRAD wrote: View Post
It is my considered opinion that if Miranda was a male character, nobody would even be commenting on "leaving the kids behind." And in fact nobody has ever said that about David Gold, who left his wife to raise a lot more children than Miranda Kadohata did her husband. But because she's a woman, it becomes an issue -- which, to be honest, is why I set up the character the way I did, to challenge the expectations. (She first appeared in Q & A, and the character was my creation.)
Nope, not true. I would quit my job tomorrow to stay home with my kids if I could. I spent many years in school and have a very nice career, and I'd give it all up to spend more time at home with them. I do have to work, but I'm also there every night, every morning, every weekend, and anytime they need me. So if thats the same choice that David Gold made (career over all else), I'd not like him for much the same reason as Miranda.

But hey, perhaps I'm the only one who thinks you should actually be with the person you married, and raise the kids you had together. And sometimes you've got to live with the consequences of those choices (one way or the other) and I applaud - I think it was you KRAD, but perhaps it was Christopher - whoever wrote the scenes where Miranda's five year old is angry at her for leaving. Very realistic. Now fast forward a few years to when she essentially feels like her parents were divorced. Or her siblings barely know their mother (heck, even at 5-years-old the daughter barely knows her) - what kind of a presence will Miranda be in their lives? These aren't just rhetorical questions - they're questions the character should be asking herself.

For what it's worth, I appreciate the feedback from both of you, and I hope that I'm in no way offending. I'm trying to provide insight into why I feel the way I do about this character, and perhaps in some small way that will effect future appearances by her.

Last edited by Kirr; January 16 2009 at 10:33 PM.
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Old January 16 2009, 10:49 PM   #384
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

^^You're certainly entitled to approach your family in your own way, but it's kind of excessive to assume that any family that's divided is somehow that way because one or both of its parents are deadbeats. What about military families? What about people who get married and have kids and then go off to serve in distant countries to make sure their spouses and kids remain safe? Are they bad parents in your eyes?
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Old January 16 2009, 10:54 PM   #385
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Christopher wrote: View Post
^^You're certainly entitled to approach your family in your own way, but it's kind of excessive to assume that any family that's divided is somehow that way because one or both of its parents are deadbeats. What about military families? What about people who get married and have kids and then go off to serve in distant countries to make sure their spouses and kids remain safe? Are they bad parents in your eyes?
Exactly.

And it's important to keep in mind that in the Federation's political culture, exploration and scientific research are regarded as being as instrumental to national defense and integrity as combat capacity is. There's a reason that Starfleet performs both national defense and exploratory functions: Because it is predicated on the idea that you need both to preserve the Federation.

So going off on a ship to be an explorer is, in the eyes of Federation culture, as valid an act of national service as going off on a ship to engage in combat.
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Old January 16 2009, 11:31 PM   #386
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

^^Not to mention that the Enterprise is a defensive vessel as well as an exploratory one, so it's not just an analogy; part of Kadohata's job is protecting her civilization, including her family.
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Old January 17 2009, 12:31 AM   #387
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

And even if her husband had agreed to follow Kadohata aboard ENT, one could argue that having young children on a ship in times of war (and the Borg invasion(s) count as such) is questionable at best, even if the ships themselves may be designed for this... and you can't always evacuate them before an attack. I know I'd be exceedingly distracted if any children of mine were in our quarters (or whereever on the ship) and I couldn't be with them... I think even more so than if they weren't around on the ship at all.

Also, I didn't get the impression that the Ent-E was a family-ship like the D was, it's much smaller after all... Would it even have been possible for her family to stay on Enterprise, or would have Kadohata had to transfer to another ship in order to have her family with her?

Another question about Gold: Isn't he much older, therefore isn't his situation quite a bit different to Kadohata's? (Unless the SCE specifically mentioned that he either *now* has young children while serving as captain, or that he continued serving in the past even when his children were younger - and of course, it would be interesting, if there were any "family" ships around by the time his children were at the age of Kadohata's.)
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Old January 17 2009, 01:25 AM   #388
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Claudia wrote: View Post
And even if her husband had agreed to follow Kadohata aboard ENT, one could argue that having young children on a ship in times of war (and the Borg invasion(s) count as such) is questionable at best, even if the ships themselves may be designed for this... and you can't always evacuate them before an attack. I know I'd be exceedingly distracted if any children of mine were in our quarters (or whereever on the ship) and I couldn't be with them... I think even more so than if they weren't around on the ship at all.

Also, I didn't get the impression that the Ent-E was a family-ship like the D was, it's much smaller after all... Would it even have been possible for her family to stay on Enterprise, or would have Kadohata had to transfer to another ship in order to have her family with her?

Another question about Gold: Isn't he much older, therefore isn't his situation quite a bit different to Kadohata's? (Unless the SCE specifically mentioned that he either *now* has young children while serving as captain, or that he continued serving in the past even when his children were younger - and of course, it would be interesting, if there were any "family" ships around by the time his children were at the age of Kadohata's.)
Gold was serving in Starfleet throughout his life as his wife was raising the kids back home.
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Old January 17 2009, 01:38 AM   #389
Kirr
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Christopher wrote: View Post
^^You're certainly entitled to approach your family in your own way, but it's kind of excessive to assume that any family that's divided is somehow that way because one or both of its parents are deadbeats. What about military families? What about people who get married and have kids and then go off to serve in distant countries to make sure their spouses and kids remain safe? Are they bad parents in your eyes?
You're kidding me right. Christopher, I'd really like you to find where I'm accusing any parent of being a 'deadbeat'. I will say that this military argument can go one of two ways - first is, yes, the person who chooses to be in the military does make that choice - and I wouldn't do it if I had young children personally, but there ya go. I'm not really certain how I feel about other people who choose that - but ultimately, my feelings about that are really not at all relevant to a discussion about a Starfleet officer who HAS a choice (unlike someone in the military) to bring their family along, or choose a different posting. She's got LOTS of alternate choices, and to make it seem otherwise is a disservice. And since you seem to hold no problem asking about how I choose to approach my family, I suppose I can ask if you even have kids, something I would think might give some more insight into how difficult it might be to leave them behind.

Claudia wrote: View Post
And even if her husband had agreed to follow Kadohata aboard ENT, one could argue that having young children on a ship in times of war (and the Borg invasion(s) count as such) is questionable at best, even if the ships themselves may be designed for this... and you can't always evacuate them before an attack. I know I'd be exceedingly distracted if any children of mine were in our quarters (or whereever on the ship) and I couldn't be with them... I think even more so than if they weren't around on the ship at all.

Also, I didn't get the impression that the Ent-E was a family-ship like the D was, it's much smaller after all... Would it even have been possible for her family to stay on Enterprise, or would have Kadohata had to transfer to another ship in order to have her family with her?
See, this argument doesn't really work for me when the Captain and his wife and future child will all be remaining with the Enterprise I'm sure. And no one is 'safe' anywhere - it's all relative. Yes, staying home is safer than being on a starship. But what if the base where her family live is attacked while she's away, relatively safer in her starship with it's defenses against the Borg.

Ultimately, I feel I've completely derailed this topic, which was not my intention. I gave my reasons for not liking Miranda, I already knew the reasons the authors feel she's made the 'right' choice, as it's clear from the portrayal, and the answers have only reinforced that. I think there were other choices here, and so I find I've got a problem with her. Doesn't stop me from reading, or enjoying, the stories you've presented.

And as I said at the beginning, I loved Destiny book 1 and look forward to talking about book 2.
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Old January 17 2009, 02:32 AM   #390
Christopher
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 1: Gods of Night - (SPOILERS)

Kirr wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
^^You're certainly entitled to approach your family in your own way, but it's kind of excessive to assume that any family that's divided is somehow that way because one or both of its parents are deadbeats. What about military families? What about people who get married and have kids and then go off to serve in distant countries to make sure their spouses and kids remain safe? Are they bad parents in your eyes?
You're kidding me right. Christopher, I'd really like you to find where I'm accusing any parent of being a 'deadbeat'.
Not in so many words, but you seem to be saying that anyone who doesn't make the same choice you made is a bad parent and worthy of your disapproval and dislike.

I'm not really certain how I feel about other people who choose that - but ultimately, my feelings about that are really not at all relevant to a discussion about a Starfleet officer who HAS a choice (unlike someone in the military) to bring their family along, or choose a different posting. She's got LOTS of alternate choices, and to make it seem otherwise is a disservice.
Yes, that's exactly my point. She has choices, and she and her husband didn't make the same choice you would have. That doesn't make it wrong.

And since you seem to hold no problem asking about how I choose to approach my family, I suppose I can ask if you even have kids, something I would think might give some more insight into how difficult it might be to leave them behind.
That's completely uncalled for. I "asked" no such thing. I explicitly said you were free to make whatever choice you wanted about your own family, and if you claim otherwise, it's a lie. And your rude question about my personal life is irrelevant to my point, which is that regardless of your or my experience, it's not our place to judge. Different people have the right to make different choices.
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