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View Poll Results: Best tactician?
Kirk 31 26.72%
Picard 11 9.48%
Sisko 63 54.31%
Janeway 11 9.48%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 15 2009, 02:27 PM   #16
kv1at3485
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

skeeter291 wrote: View Post
All the other Captains have done a great job but Sisko had to run a war. That puts him over the top.
Sisko didn't run the war. He was a tactical commander who, by merit of his billet, had a bit more say with the admirals in the operational planning of the theatre he was attached to.

Getting the Romulans into the war, and convincing the Prohpets to wave their hand, had nothing to do with his tactical skills.

The only time we see Sisko with, perhaps, major authority over the fleet is in Operation Return. (The rest of those big flashy dumbfests he's either always acting as an advisor to the admirals/generals commanding the fleet or just being a plain old starship captain.) And I can't say Operation Return makes he think: "Hey, he's a much better tactician than s0-and-so..."
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Old January 15 2009, 03:51 PM   #17
TheGodBen
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

Mach5 wrote: View Post
You're kidding, right? Show me one example where Archer actually used tactics...
He got Mayweather to pull an L7 in The Expanse. Where's my prize?
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Old January 15 2009, 05:38 PM   #18
Semah
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

Star Trek isn't the most tactical universe. It's a lot of "Attack Pattern Omega"s and what not. The closest I can come up with for interesting tactics is Kirk's 3 dimentional thinking in the Mutara Nebula and Janeway's seeming knowledge of her own plot immunity.
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Old January 15 2009, 05:52 PM   #19
Scout101
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

hard saying, as they were rarely challenged, and when they did, yeah, it was just lay in attack pattern X!

Sisko will win, but only because he was shown in more war situations (that, and DS9 being the favorite on the board). Who else was shown in enough of those situations to even compare?

Janeway held her own in a fight. Picard has tactical classes named after his innovative thinking. Kirk was so good that an entire species decided that you weren't a real warrior until you had fought Kirk in battle. Archer even held his own despite usually being far outclassed.

On the other hand, Sisko also lost his ship. Picard as well (Stargazer, E-D doesn't count, he wasn't aboard). Janeway and Archer arrived at the end of the series with the original ships, and Kirk only lost his because he had a crew of 5 and lost the automation. Points off for Sisko and Picard there.

Anyway, don't think you can make much of a judgement here, and you don't ever see them all in similar situations, other than in ship-vs-ship battles, and in those cases, they all seemed to do just fine, and were all decent. Worst of that group is probably Picard, as they mostly just sat and absorbed a few shots, then fired once...
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Old January 15 2009, 06:08 PM   #20
FPAlpha
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

I think it's a toss up between Picard and Sisko.

Picard has already a tactical maneuver named after him and Sisko was an accomplished military mind who got (deservedly) much credit for ending the Dominion War.

Picard is a diplomat first but he is experienced and sly enough to know not to show his entire hand and have backup plans in case he needs them. He's quick on his mind and able to improvise should he have to.. it will be very hard to beat him in any case.

Sisko is good at the strategic and tactical level.. able to lead an entire fleet as well as a single ship. He is not afraid to make the hard choices when he has to and he's able to see and call a bluff.

Kirk is to emotional for me to be a really good tactician.. he's far to prone to use blunt force to win and sometimes that's not the best way to go. He's a bit like Patton.. capable and a legend but gotten there over too many bodies.

Janeway i don't know.. she surely can stand on her own and she's highly intelligent. To be honest i'd rate her middle class but being Starfleet that middle class may be top tier for many other organizations. Since i think Voyager was badly written many times, i.e. too ridiculous odds against the Voyager but she still wins the day it is hard to truly judge her.

As has been said Riker is overlooked.. he's easily one of the best officers Starfleet has and only recently got his own ship. He's very smart, quick wits and he rarely plays by the book and likes to improvise (to great success). That makes him a brilliant tactician and given a bit more time will easily fill the shoes of Picard and maybe make his own impression on Starfleet.
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Old January 15 2009, 08:39 PM   #21
hammerhead
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

Semah wrote: View Post
Star Trek isn't the most tactical universe. It's a lot of "Attack Pattern Omega"s and what not. The closest I can come up with for interesting tactics is Kirk's 3 dimentional thinking in the Mutara Nebula and Janeway's seeming knowledge of her own plot immunity.
Your comment of "Attack Pattern Omega" reminded me that in "Nemesis" Riker calls for the evasive pattern "Pattern Kirk Epsilon" so Kirk has at least one maneuver named after him but Riker has two because in "BOBW" he uses "Pattern Riker alpha" and "Pattern Riker beta".

Here's a list of all of them: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Evasive_maneuvers
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Old January 15 2009, 09:29 PM   #22
Scout101
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

That doesn't mean there are "attack or evasive patterns" named after them. Not if they are calling them out themselves. All that indicates is that Riker spent time programing in some patterns so that he could use them at a later date.

The Kirk one, on the other hand, is more likely to be based upon his tactics and/or accomplishments.

Think of it this way: when calling out a holodeck program, they usually used a filename that had their name in it. Does that mean that they're recognized galaxy-wide for it, or that they saved it under their directory?
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Old January 17 2009, 12:21 AM   #23
EnsignRicky
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

Sheridan....Then maybe Kirk.
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Old January 17 2009, 12:42 AM   #24
Whoa Nellie
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

Captain Jean-Luc Picard.

Mach5 wrote: View Post
The Picard Maneuver - nuff said
Exactly. We're told that the Picard Maneuver is taught at the academy. In the episode "The Battle" LaForge is in awe at actually being on the Stargazer.

It has been mentioned how Picard plays his cards close to his vest. I love in the episode "The Defector" when the Klingon ships decloak. Too Cool!

Scout101 wrote: View Post
That doesn't mean there are "attack or evasive patterns" named after them. Not if they are calling them out themselves. All that indicates is that Riker spent time programing in some patterns so that he could use them at a later date.
I took it to be much like a coach would have specific types of plays for his team.

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Old January 17 2009, 07:21 AM   #25
Infern0
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

In reality, it's so obviously Picard, I mean that was all he had really, plus he invented the Picard manouver
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Old January 22 2009, 10:52 PM   #26
CobraCommander
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

Scout101 wrote: View Post

On the other hand, Sisko also lost his ship. Picard as well (Stargazer, E-D doesn't count, he wasn't aboard). Janeway and Archer arrived at the end of the series with the original ships, and Kirk only lost his because he had a crew of 5 and lost the automation. Points off for Sisko and Picard there.

Anyway, don't think you can make much of a judgement here, and you don't ever see them all in similar situations, other than in ship-vs-ship battles, and in those cases, they all seemed to do just fine, and were all decent. Worst of that group is probably Picard, as they mostly just sat and absorbed a few shots, then fired once...
Sisko lost his ship due to battle against superior forces. Picard "lost" Stargazer by abandoning it in deep space. He failed to self destruct his ship, thereby leaving it equipped with photon torpedoes and its computer intact for anyone to find and use. Enterprise-D was destroyed as a result of an attack by an obsolete bird of prey (even though the ship was fully staffed and equipped with the best Federation weapons). At least when Kirk self-destructed the Enterprise, he took out the Klignon crew and prevented Federation secrets and technology from falling into the wrong hands.
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Old January 23 2009, 02:41 AM   #27
The Grim Ghost
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

I would go with Kirk because the TC didn't specify Starship combat alone. I'm looking at this in a bit more of a broad way.

To me it seemed that Kirk was presented with the widest range of bizarre and seemingly unwinnable situations by far. Many times he was forced to confront godlike beings and species with tech far beyond his own. All of the Captains did, but they all relied much more on their subordinates to supply them with options. Kirk occasionally did as well, but many times he simply tricked or out thought enemies that he would normally have had no chance to beat.
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Old January 23 2009, 03:16 AM   #28
Navaros
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

The Sisko. Glad to see him winning this by a landslide. That is the Universe as it should be.
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Old January 23 2009, 07:33 AM   #29
Infern0
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

Why is no-body picking janeway, I mean she handed the Borg thier ass on numerous occasions.
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Old January 23 2009, 07:54 AM   #30
number6
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Re: Best tactician? Kirk,Picard, Sisko or Janeway?

Sorry for the driveby, but
Every time I see this thread I think it's a poll on who has the Best Testicles.

Just popping by to share. Don't mind me.
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