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Old January 6 2009, 11:44 PM   #16
Christopher
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Re: Contradictions between Firefly series & Serenity

Sci wrote: View Post
But he obviously doesn't really feel like they're not his crew, since his first reaction to River going crazy was to take her back aboard.
Excellent point. He said one thing, but when it came down to it, he did another. And his actions were consistent with the series, even if his words didn't seem to be.

The contradiction that bothered me was how incredibly different the cargo bay in the film looked compared to the series, and the fact that the dining room in the film was elevated above the deck of the hallways whereas it had been lowered beneath it in the series.
Yeah, those bugged me a bit. But it's creative license. I'm sure they had reasons for the subtle tweaks they made. I bet that if the show had gone on longer, we would've seen unexplained changes made to the sets and the ship model from season to season.
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Old January 7 2009, 12:02 AM   #17
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Re: Contradictions between Firefly series & Serenity

The comic 'Those Left Behind' gives a pretty concrete explanation for the backslide in Mal's character from the end of the series ('Objects in Space') to the events of the movie.

The only real contradiction between the film and the series is Simon's involvement in River's rescue from the Academy, but the most logical reason for why it was changed is that it makes her rescue more dramatic and relatable to the audience if her brother had a hand in it directly.
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Old January 8 2009, 12:15 AM   #18
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Re: Contradictions between Firefly series & Serenity

I think the thing about Mal is that he gets a lot meaner when pushed into a corner. He's also a real alpha male within his little realm, meaning, if challenged he tends to go for the dominant position, whether that's reasonable or not, whether that's the smart move or not - and he'll back it to the death because being the captain of Serenity is the only identity he still has. Kicking Simon out was a response to Simon challenging his authority. It seemed entirely consistent with his character to me.
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Old January 8 2009, 12:27 AM   #19
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Re: Contradictions between Firefly series & Serenity

What always got me was in Serenity when we see Simon freeing River from the facility, we see two guys in suits chasing after them. Are these supposed to be the same as the Blue Gloved guys from Firefly? And if so, why weren't they wearing Blue Gloves?
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Old January 8 2009, 12:32 AM   #20
Lindley
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Re: Contradictions between Firefly series & Serenity

In one of the early drafts of the script they had blue gloves. However, the comic Those Left Behind has the Blue Hands biting it and the Operative being dispatched as a direct result of that.
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Old January 8 2009, 01:57 AM   #21
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Re: Contradictions between Firefly series & Serenity

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I don't think there's any direct contradiction between how Simon said he got River out in the series and what we saw in the movie. He simply omitted the fact that he was the one that went in after her while those "others" he paid to help him are the ones that got him out. In fact we see in the movie a ship come and hoist them out of that shaft and there's no way he could have just walked in there on his own, it's clear that he had a considerable amount of help.

As for Mal's character, he's clearly slid back into a similar rut he was in during the pilot, thanks mostly the the departure of Inara and the increasing pressure of keeping his ship in the air. As the movie goes on things just get worse (specifically the wholesale slaughter of just about every friend and ally he had left), so he's hardly going to cheer up along the way. Nevertheless there are a few moments of levity, so it's still the same Mal.
I agree. I didn't notice any changes in characterization that weren't warranted by the circumstances. The relations between Mal and the Tams were always tenuous at best and there has always been a fight inside Mal between his pragmatic and altruistic sides about them. Work being pretty sparse between the last episode of Firefly and Serenity hasn't helped matters. Also, Wheedon and his writing staff are human and continuity glitches are expected. Sometimes they forget little details and sometimes they rework things after thinking things through.
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Old January 8 2009, 02:04 AM   #22
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Re: Contradictions between Firefly series & Serenity

The biggest contradiction is that the TV show was very good and the movie was very bad.
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Old January 8 2009, 02:39 AM   #23
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Re: Contradictions between Firefly series & Serenity

Lindley wrote: View Post
In one of the early drafts of the script they had blue gloves. However, the comic Those Left Behind has the Blue Hands biting it and the Operative being dispatched as a direct result of that.
Even so, the question was about the flashback scene which occurs before the series begins. So they could theoretically have been Blue Hands. Although my understanding (from something behind-the-scenes I read) is that the Blue Hands were supposed to be from some kind of private black-ops organization hired by the Parliament to get River back. That would've come out eventually if the series had gone on.
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Old January 8 2009, 04:01 AM   #24
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Re: Contradictions between Firefly series & Serenity

I've never given a shit. I think Mal was cooler in the movie, but that was about it. I like both, but I've always thought the fans go a bit over board with the whole thing considering its one failed albeit enjoyable movie and 13 episodes.
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Old January 8 2009, 04:40 AM   #25
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Re: Contradictions between Firefly series & Serenity

Christopher wrote: View Post
Lindley wrote: View Post
In one of the early drafts of the script they had blue gloves. However, the comic Those Left Behind has the Blue Hands biting it and the Operative being dispatched as a direct result of that.
Even so, the question was about the flashback scene which occurs before the series begins. So they could theoretically have been Blue Hands. Although my understanding (from something behind-the-scenes I read) is that the Blue Hands were supposed to be from some kind of private black-ops organization hired by the Parliament to get River back. That would've come out eventually if the series had gone on.
I simply assumed the security recording we see at the beginning of the movie was faked. We're led to believe that The Operative is watching security footage the whole time we see the flashback. Disinformation is not beneath the Alliance and it gives them better credibility in making Simon a fugitive.
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Old January 8 2009, 04:48 AM   #26
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Re: Contradictions between Firefly series & Serenity

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I don't think there's any direct contradiction between how Simon said he got River out in the series and what we saw in the movie. He simply omitted the fact that he was the one that went in after her while those "others" he paid to help him are the ones that got him out. In fact we see in the movie a ship come and hoist them out of that shaft and there's no way he could have just walked in there on his own, it's clear that he had a considerable amount of help.

As for Mal's character, he's clearly slid back into a similar rut he was in during the pilot, thanks mostly the the departure of Inara and the increasing pressure of keeping his ship in the air. As the movie goes on things just get worse (specifically the wholesale slaughter of just about every friend and ally he had left), so he's hardly going to cheer up along the way. Nevertheless there are a few moments of levity, so it's still the same Mal.
Here is a script excerpt from 'Serenity' (the pilot, not the film) that concerns Simon's explanation of why River was in that box:
SIMON
Money. And luck -- for two years I couldn't get near her, but I was contacted by some men, some underground movement. They said she was in danger, that the government was playing with her brain. If I funded them they could sneak her out in cryo. Get her to Boros and from there, I could take her... wherever.
In the movie, as previously stated, Simon is directly involved in River's escape, which, as shown by the above excerpt, is in direct contradiction of what was established in the 2-hour pilot. It is also slightly contradictory to his character development throughout the early episodes of the series, although not to any real detrimental degree.
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Old January 8 2009, 06:19 AM   #27
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Re: Contradictions between Firefly series & Serenity

Simon is only stating what the men said there, not what happened. It could be entirely true----and that once the operation was further along, he insisted on participating directly. An argument that a doctor's perspective could be useful for the undercover part might be convincing.
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Old January 8 2009, 06:26 AM   #28
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Re: Contradictions between Firefly series & Serenity

Yeah, but it undercuts his character. He was a very smart guy--a genius, even--but in certain situations (romance, action) he is completely awkward and incompetent. While it is a cool moment in the movie to see Simon confidently impersonate an Alliance doctor, precisely drop the stun grenade, and confidently break River out, it doesn't line up with the television series. Not the television series I ever saw, anyway.

You can try to rationalize it away, but it's always going to be one of those gaps between the series and the movie that doesn't make sense.
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Old January 8 2009, 06:41 AM   #29
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Re: Contradictions between Firefly series & Serenity

I don't really disagree. I would point out though that if there's going to be anyone Simon can impersonate well, it's going to be an Alliance official----and if it's going to happen any place, it's going to be a medical facility.
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Old January 8 2009, 06:52 AM   #30
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Re: Contradictions between Firefly series & Serenity

True, true. It's more the demeanor than the situation that I don't buy (combined with negating the previous line), but in the end, it's a movie, and I understand Joss had to streamline and change a few things to make them more accessible for an audience that, unfortunately, never showed up to the theatre.
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