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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Grade Lost Souls
Excellent 131 72.38%
Above Average 35 19.34%
Average 12 6.63%
Below Average 1 0.55%
Poor 2 1.10%
Voters: 181. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 7 2009, 04:49 PM   #436
adamczar
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

^ Thanks for the refresher. I figured it was something like that. Kind of like Skynet sending a machine back to be reversed engineered to start their own existence. (I know that's not a perfect comparison but it's shares some similarities.) Trippy.
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Old January 7 2009, 11:02 PM   #437
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

I have finished the reading of the Destiny trilogy today. I enjoyed the books quite much. Lost Souls was a real page turner, I read the book on a single day. Thanks for some enjoyable hours your books provided me and a thumbs-up from my end for managing to have all things Borg-wise fall into place so nicely. My favorite move being element 010. Nice one!

A lot has already been said about some minor (character) issues. I share some of those (e.g. Picard's characterisation and Dax's attitudes...), but I have one other question for Mr. Mack, concerning something he included in the storyline that I didn't felt the need for:

Personally I can't stand the inclusion of projectile weapons in Star Trek (novels). That is one thing that divides Star Trek from shows like Stargate SG-1. The more 'modern' kind of weaponry used in Star Trek does a lot to show a difference between our time and the more advenced time frame of the series. Things like projectile weapons in the hands of Starfleet is something that doesn't feel Star Trek to me.

My question is influenced by that feeling: Why did you include the friendly fire passage in Lost Souls? That didn't really do anything to move the story further, did it? It came in connection with the TR-something rifles and it simply made me feel reading about a present day millitary engagement than a struggle between Starfleet security and the borg.

So, what made you include this scene? Was it maybe the adressing of the real-life situation with friendly fire, or was it coming from some other direction I can't think of myself? Any answer would be appriciated.

Edit: I came up with another question:
Where the released borg drones given a choice? Wheather to become Caeliar or not? Of course, once set free most of the drones would panic and falter, but there had to be some drones freshly or newly assimilated.
I mean what about drones that actually had only been members of the collective for a short time? Couldn't it be that some of those actually might not want to switch over from being borg to being Caeliar, but instead would wish to regain their individuality and freedom like Picard or Seven (sort of) have managed before. Do I make any sense here?

Did this come up in the book (and was overlooked by me [entirely possible!]) or will it maybe come up at a later date, in one of the follow up books?
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Last edited by Cut; January 7 2009 at 11:17 PM. Reason: Thought of a second question
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Old January 7 2009, 11:21 PM   #438
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Phyzzx wrote: View Post
Damn you!

And, I mean that with all the love and affection I have I am a teacher in Utah on Christmas break. I decided that I needed to read a trek book or 2 over my wonderful vacation, in between playing with my kids and running all over hell and back visiting family. I haven't read a trek book in four years. So, I decided to skip over the "Time to..." books and start up with Destiny. I downloaded the first 2 books from fictionwise.com and read them in 2 days. It's Saturday night, 8 PM, and I finished reading book 2. I was enthralled, exhilarated, and ready for book 3. I stroll over to my mac, bring up fictionwise.com to download book 3, and guess what!? They don't have book 3! I called local retailers here (no real bookstore in my neck of the woods, just Target and Walmart), and no one had the book. In my frantic desperation to find out what happens next, I run out to a Barnes and Noble in Orem (about 16 miles from my current location) to acquire book 3. When I arrive, they had one copy left. WHEEEE!!!! I grab the book, and get myself and my wife some coffee at the counter. As I was reading the first page, the lovely clerk rang up my book and the coffee. The total, I kid you not, came to $17.01. 1701!!! This adventure was meant to be!!!

Now, if you'll excuse me, i'll be reading book 3 now. I just wanted to share my little adventure. Review to come!

P.S. Mack, you're my new favorite Trek author!
Fictionwise still doesn't have Lost Souls. I picked up my eBook copy from BooksOnBoard.

Anyway, as for the Destiny Trilogy, all I can say is Thank You David for such a thrill ride. I look forward to seeing how Destiny has shaped the Star Trek Lit Universe.
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Old January 7 2009, 11:32 PM   #439
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Cut wrote: View Post
I have finished the reading of the Destiny trilogy today. I enjoyed the books quite much. Lost Souls was a real page turner, I read the book on a single day. Thanks for some enjoyable hours your books provided me and a thumbs-up from my end for managing to have all things Borg-wise fall into place so nicely. My favorite move being element 010. Nice one!

A lot has already been said about some minor (character) issues. I share some of those (e.g. Picard's characterisation and Dax's attitudes...), but I have one other question for Mr. Mack, concerning something he included in the storyline that I didn't felt the need for:

Personally I can't stand the inclusion of projectile weapons in Star Trek (novels). That is one thing that divides Star Trek from shows like Stargate SG-1. The more 'modern' kind of weaponry used in Star Trek does a lot to show a difference between our time and the more advenced time frame of the series. Things like projectile weapons in the hands of Starfleet is something that doesn't feel Star Trek to me.

My question is influenced by that feeling: Why did you include the friendly fire passage in Lost Souls? That didn't really do anything to move the story further, did it? It came in connection with the TR-something rifles and it simply made me feel reading about a present day millitary engagement than a struggle between Starfleet security and the borg.

So, what made you include this scene? Was it maybe the adressing of the real-life situation with friendly fire, or was it coming from some other direction I can't think of myself? Any answer would be appriciated.
While I can't say anything about the friendly fire thing, the reason they used projectile weapons was because part of the boarding plan requried that they use energy dampners probably to0 diable the Borgs personal shields and for other reasons and seeing as phasers need energy to work the projectile rifles were the only weapons they could use with out getting really close to the drones.
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Old January 7 2009, 11:34 PM   #440
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post

While I can't say anything about the friendly fire thing, the reason they used projectile weapons was because part of the boarding plan requried that they use energy dampners probably to0 diable the Borgs personal shields and for other reasons and seeing as phasers need energy to work the projectile rifles were the only weapons they could use with out getting really close to the drones.
Yes, I understood the in-story reasoning. I just didn't like it
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Old January 8 2009, 12:19 AM   #441
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Cut wrote: View Post
Personally I can't stand the inclusion of projectile weapons in Star Trek (novels). ... Things like projectile weapons in the hands of Starfleet is something that doesn't feel Star Trek to me.
The show itself stated that such weapons as the TR-116 had been developed for use against the Jem'Hadar, in the DS9 episode "Field of Fire." So whether or not it "feels like Star Trek" to you, it is part of Star Trek.

As for your question of why that tactic was used by Starfleet in the attack on the Borg scout ship, Hartzilla2007 summed it up perfectly. In order for the story to move forward, I had to concoct a strategy that would plausibly let the characters capture a Borg vessel intact. And to give the characters the idea was the reason for the Hirogen attack in Mere Mortals.

As for your reaction to that:
Yes, I understood the in-story reasoning. I just didn't like it
Well, there's not much I can do about that, is there?

My question is influenced by that feeling: Why did you include the friendly fire passage in Lost Souls?
Because it was an entirely logical outcome of that combat scenario, and it gave me a chance to explore the character of Lonnoc Kedair in slightly more depth later on.


Where the released borg drones given a choice? Wheather to become Caeliar or not? ...

Did this come up in the book (and was overlooked by me [entirely possible!]) or will it maybe come up at a later date, in one of the follow up books?
All I'm going to say is that you should definitely pick up Keith R.A. DeCandido's new novel A Singular Destiny, as well as the upcoming Voyager book Full Circle by Kirsten Beyer, and also the TNG novel Losing the Peace by William Leisner to learn more about this aspect of the post-Destiny fallout.
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Old January 8 2009, 12:49 AM   #442
Claudia
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

One thing I didn't quite understand was what went on with Seven at the end. I mean she was already no longer a member of the Collective and I'd have expected her to have a similar (if much stronger) reaction to Picard's. But the way I understood it she sort of regressed to the time before her assimilation, and didn't all her implants fall out/disappear as well? To me that doesn't quite make much sense because she needed the implants for survival, and why should they just disintegrate?

And another question about Betazoids and following up on the discussion regarding Troi from GoN: My main criticism back then was Ree's suggestion of a hysterectomy which to me at least seemed like some kind of overkill. But in LS Inyx mentioned to repair the unfertilized eggs in her uterus... Which would put a new spin on the hysterectomy, of course. But then again, wouldn't have Betazoid females, especially half-human half-Betazoid females, something akin to ovaries? Well, that kind of struck me as strange while reading. *g*
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Old January 8 2009, 12:56 AM   #443
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

I loved the book trilogy but personally, i found the ending to be a little too Deus Ex Machina to me. Now, that doesn't mean that i didn't like it, because i really did.
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Old January 8 2009, 01:15 AM   #444
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Claudia wrote: View Post
One thing I didn't quite understand was what went on with Seven at the end. I mean she was already no longer a member of the Collective and I'd have expected her to have a similar (if much stronger) reaction to Picard's. But the way I understood it she sort of regressed to the time before her assimilation, and didn't all her implants fall out/disappear as well? To me that doesn't quite make much sense because she needed the implants for survival, and why should they just disintegrate?
Excellent questions!

The answer is: Make sure to pick up Full Circle when it comes out.
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Old January 8 2009, 01:41 AM   #445
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed the whole Destiny trilogy. David Mack to an incredible job. The way he tied in so many aspects of Star Trek and gave us both a beginning and an ending to the Borg was incredible. I liked the Aventine and Captain Dax, the NX-02 Columbia plot line, The Riker-Troi story, the incredible action in the Borg invasion sequences just to name a few of my favorite parts.


All in all, I was blown away by this trilogy and I can't wait for more.
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Old January 8 2009, 02:23 AM   #446
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

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"I am not Nanietta Bacco, I am 1 of 8, Primary Adjunction of Unimatrix 037. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. Unless the Pike City Pioneers beat the Cubs."
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Old January 8 2009, 02:28 AM   #447
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Claudia wrote: View Post
One thing I didn't quite understand was what went on with Seven at the end. I mean she was already no longer a member of the Collective and I'd have expected her to have a similar (if much stronger) reaction to Picard's. But the way I understood it she sort of regressed to the time before her assimilation
We don't know that. All we know is that she said her name was Annika Hansen instead of Seven of Nine. Annika Hansen is her real, legal name. Her aunt calls her Annika, and there have been cases in the TNG-R novels where she's been referred to by other characters as Professor Hansen. It's just been her preference to go by Seven of Nine; all we know at this point is that said preference seems to have changed.

And she's different from Picard because she still had implants, and because she was a Borg far longer. Also she's simply a different individual.
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Old January 8 2009, 11:59 AM   #448
Cut
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

David Mack wrote: View Post
Cut wrote: View Post
Personally I can't stand the inclusion of projectile weapons in Star Trek (novels). ... Things like projectile weapons in the hands of Starfleet is something that doesn't feel Star Trek to me.
The show itself stated that such weapons as the TR-116 had been developed for use against the Jem'Hadar, in the DS9 episode "Field of Fire." So whether or not it "feels like Star Trek" to you, it is part of Star Trek.

I somehow must have missed that bit on the last run of DS9. I stick to my statement, that it doesn't feel right for Star Trek anyway

David Mack wrote: View Post
As for your question of why that tactic was used by Starfleet in the attack on the Borg scout ship, Hartzilla2007 summed it up perfectly. In order for the story to move forward, I had to concoct a strategy that would plausibly let the characters capture a Borg vessel intact. And to give the characters the idea was the reason for the Hirogen attack in Mere Mortals.
As I said, that was understood be me (and I even realized that was the reason to include an otherwise [again my feeling] out-of-place Hirogen attack in Mere Mortals). When the scenario with the probe came up, I immediately saw the use of the scene from before

David Mack wrote: View Post
As for your reaction to that:
Yes, I understood the in-story reasoning. I just didn't like it
Well, there's not much I can do about that, is there?
No, not really

David Mack wrote: View Post
My question is influenced by that feeling: Why did you include the friendly fire passage in Lost Souls?
Because it was an entirely logical outcome of that combat scenario, and it gave me a chance to explore the character of Lonnoc Kedair in slightly more depth later on.
If you put it that way... I think it wouldn't have hurt neither the character development nor the storyline if left out, but hey, who am I to try to argue with the author of such an epic work

David Mack wrote: View Post
Where the released borg drones given a choice? Wheather to become Caeliar or not? ...

Did this come up in the book (and was overlooked by me [entirely possible!]) or will it maybe come up at a later date, in one of the follow up books?
All I'm going to say is that you should definitely pick up Keith R.A. DeCandido's new novel A Singular Destiny, as well as the upcoming Voyager book Full Circle by Kirsten Beyer, and also the TNG novel Losing the Peace by William Leisner to learn more about this aspect of the post-Destiny fallout.
I had a feeling you might say something like that. But as I had the intention of reading those titles anyway that's quite fine by me I am looking forward to the books.

Thanks for taking the time to clear things up a bit for me. Might be back with some more questions later, though
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Old January 8 2009, 12:51 PM   #449
Claudia
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Christopher wrote: View Post
Claudia wrote: View Post
But the way I understood it she (Seven) sort of regressed to the time before her assimilation
We don't know that. All we know is that she said her name was Annika Hansen instead of Seven of Nine. Annika Hansen is her real, legal name.
It's not the name, it's the way Seven/Annika is described. I definitely got a very childlike impression of her at the end.

And she's different from Picard because she still had implants, and because she was a Borg far longer. Also she's simply a different individual.
Agreed - but I always thought of the implants as medical necessities, otherwise the EMH would have removed them. So, in essence, why doesn't she die when they disintegrate?

But I'll just follow William Leisner's advice to wait for "Full Circle" (never would have guessed I'd buy a VOY-novel! *g*).
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Old January 8 2009, 01:04 PM   #450
Cut
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Claudia wrote: View Post
Agreed - but I always thought of the implants as medical necessities, otherwise the EMH would have removed them. So, in essence, why doesn't she die when they disintegrate?
Ah, this reminds me of another question:

Why are there no EMHs in the sickbays of Aventine, Enterprise-E or Titan? At least I don't recall any EMH being mentioned, during the medical and triage scenes.
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