Kirk's status, new timeline- Really so far off? (Contains spoilers!)

[BenRoethig]

Babaganoosh wrote:

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The only positive sign is that one bit towards the end of the preview where Kirk, this time in a real Starfleet uniform (and wearing full Captain's stripes, no less!) says "Buckle up!" You will also notice that all signs of the bar fight - i.e. the injuries to his face - have disappeared by this point. So we can only HOPE that a fair amount of time - years, ideally - have passed by this point. But until May rolls around, all we can comment on is what we see in the preview...

That scene is set in the restored timeline depending on the resolution of the movie.

[Vigilance]

J.T.B. wrote:

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I don't know what the situation is in the movie, but historical precedents for a newly-minted officer taking an O-6 level command are pretty much limited to battle situations where every intervening level has been wiped out. There is no organization that would gamble such valuable assets on an inexperienced and untried officer, except in dire emergency.

--Justin

I pretty much agree with this- except with regards to Star Fleet not being run like any military organization on Earth today. Or else, Kirk would not have retained his command through the TOS years. He's insubordinate a LOT.

And the better parallel for Kirk is King Arthur anyway. That ship is his destiny, his Excalibur. Whether or not it could REALLY happen is irrelevant. Whether or not it makes a good story? More important, and we'll see.

[clint g]

Im seeing alot of stuff about that black uniform, so let me toss in my 2 cents. it has already been stated that the uniforms being worn in the movie are a 2 piece set. Its a Blue/red/gold over coat being worn over a BLACK shirt, in a way similar to how there was an over jacket being worn with the First Contact uniforms. It is very possible that Kirk (in a manner that is very fitting with his character) is simply just not wearing the gold overcoat, and just has the black shirt on display. I doubt it is a cadet uniform since it has already been displayed that the cadet uniform is a red jumpsuit style clothing.

The biggest difference with the tops is that they are comprised of two pieces, with a very dark grey (almost black) undershirt and the over shirt of the appropriate color, with a slight v-neck. The undershirt forms what looks like a black collar, similar to the TOS uniforms. As TrekMovie’s closer look at the new poster reveals (above), the colored uniform blouses have small ‘delta shield’ emblems woven into the fabric (this is most apparent on Saldana’s). Also, the shirt Chris Pine is wearing in the new poster appears to be uniform undershirt

http://trekmovie.com/2008/07/31/star...form-spoilers/

[Captain Robert April]

Didn't anybody else read Keith DeCandido's article in Star Trek magazine a while back? About the only time during TOS that Kirk disobeyed orders was "Amok Time", otherwise he was so by-the-book it was ridiculous.

[Nerys Myk]

Read it? I didn't even know they still published it.

Though I'd have to say TOS Movie Kirk is more of a rule bender/breaker. TOS Kirk prefers to break the balls of bureaucrats.

[USS Triumphant]

BenRoethig wrote:

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That scene is set in the restored timeline depending on the resolution of the movie.

That ... is awesome. I don't know if it's right or not, but I certainly hadn't thought about that angle at all.

[pookha]

Captain Robert April wrote:

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Didn't anybody else read Keith DeCandido's article in Star Trek magazine a while back? About the only time during TOS that Kirk disobeyed orders was "Amok Time", otherwise he was so by-the-book it was ridiculous.

it maybe the only time he out right broke a direct command but he spent a lot of time being disrespectful to figures of authority.
and there were times he pushed things to the limit.

we see this in obsession , galieo seven and other places.\
i mean at the end of g7 while he technically didnt break the high commish orders he wasnt exactly following the spirit of them.
he tells decker off in doomsday machine.
most of the time starfleet left a lot of stuff up to kirk so he wasnt put into the postion of breaking orders.

[Red Ranger]

Since a lot of you are talking about the Kobayashi Maru scenario, which of course didn't enter TOS lore till TWOK, I just wanted to remind you all of something Kirk said about the incident. When he explains to Saavik and the others how he won, he points out he "got a commendation for original thinking." You don't get a commendation and a reprimand at the same time. It's possible some higher-ups were pissed off at Kirk's actions, but someone in the chain of command must've approved of Kirk's solution in order for him to get a commendation. In the original timeline, of course! -- RR

[Infern0]

I think this film doesn't need credibility, Abrahms doesn't care about realism, it's a popcorn movie!

[pookha]

Red Ranger wrote:

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Since a lot of you are talking about the Kobayashi Maru scenario, which of course didn't enter TOS lore till TWOK, I just wanted to remind you all of something Kirk said about the incident. When he explains to Saavik and the others how he won, he points out he "got a commendation for original thinking." You don't get a commendation and a reprimand at the same time. It's possible some higher-ups were pissed off at Kirk's actions, but someone in the chain of command must've approved of Kirk's solution in order for him to get a commendation. In the original timeline, of course! -- RR

hmm i could see certain circumstances were one would get a commendation but overall have a negative review.
think of the end of voyage home.

[Nerys Myk]

Infern0 wrote:

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I think this film doesn't need credibility, Abrahms doesn't care about realism, it's a popcorn movie!

Realism? what does that have to do with Star Trek? It's has an FTL ship with artifical gravity shooting something called "phasers".

[xortex]

You could see they're trying to connect the dots between contemporary military and all of trek which just seems stupid silly and ugly. It's starting to look like Starship troopers or wing command. It's a vision, not reality. If anything it is more surreal than anything else and should be.

[btflash]

Vigilance wrote:

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Alexander the Great was leading armies at a very young age, in command of people with much more experience who were much older. Leadership can be an innate quality, and we've already seen that Kirk has it.

As the older Spock tells him, it's time for him to take command of HIS ship.

alexander was also a "king" at the time he was leading armies. that's a little different than cadet kirk taking over the enterprise.

[the quickening]

The film will only show one universe -- albeit we may be told that Nero somehow "changed the future" of this universe.

Assuming you are correct and only one universe is shown, how can this be an origins story, if we only see the altered universe? If Kirk's future is the only thing altered, I suppose you can say it is, but if the whole TREK universe is altered, then Abrams and company have made an origins movie that doesn't even tell the story of the origins of the characters we love and the movie is a failure from step one.

[Cary L. Brown]

gastrof wrote:

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Some have expressed concerns about the new timeline making impossible some of the experiences Kirk was said to have had when younger (and episodes that grew out of them), but I wonder how many have really been wrecked.

Some seem to be taking Kirk on Pike's Enterprise as a cadet with no real status at all with Starfleet, but something seems to be pointing in a different direction. What's that?

The fact he can apparently relieve Spock of command and take over the ship.

Would a cadet be able to do that with Uhura, Sulu, and the others present?

I suspect that Kirk is NOT a cadet at that point in the movie, and that at least some of what we know did already happen to him. (For example, him losing his captain on an earlier ship to the vampire cloud.)

Does anyone else get what I'm saying? Care to comment?

Broken record time again... I hate the fact that I keep having to repeat this point. But with so few people today having actually served, I guess few people understand this sort of thing.

Military careers aren't like civilian ones. You don't "go to college, graduate, and go get a job." Education is a continuing process, and each time you are being prepared to hold a higher level of responsibility, you're required to return for further training and education before you're permitted to do so.

In the US Army, today:

A cadet must graduate from the Academy (or, today, alternatively from ROTC) before becoming a junior officer.

A junior officer must graduate from Officer Basic (not the same thing as basic training, which is also required but while still a cadet) before being permitted to actually serve.

A serving junior officer must graduate from Officer Advanced before being promoted to a lower-level command (ie, a company commander role) and being promoted to a mid-level rank (ie, Captain).

A serving mid-level officer must attend another training program before being eligible to serve in a mid-level command (ie, Batallion command) and to be promoted to a senior-level rank (ie, Lieutenant Colonel... the equivalent in naval terms of Commander, by the way).

A serving senior-level officer must attend another training program before being eligible to be promoted to a the ranks of the Generals, and to hold the senior level roles reserved for those personnel.

The point? WHY, OH WHY does everyone keep assuming that Kirk would have taken the Kobayashi Maru test as a "cadet?" Saavik wasn't a "cadet" in ST-II... she was Lieutenant. She was in command of a crew of cadets, but she, herself, was a commissioned officer. Naval Lieutenants are the same as Army Captains... meaning she had at least four and as many as ten years of active duty service under her belt already.

Same as would be the case with Kirk at the same point in his career.

The only way that this works is if they show Kirk arriving at SFA, then cut forward a number of years (eight, minimum!) to when he's back at the academy for his "Officer Advanced" course.

If they don't do it that way (and I'm giving it a 50/50 chance), then they'll be "off," badly. If he really is a "cadet" who takes command... they'll be slapping the audience in the face by doing so... especially those of us who've served.