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Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old December 27 2008, 05:09 AM   #31
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Re: Why so little Uhura in ST3?

I always gave her some of the credit of the space doors opening. For some reason I always thought that it would take Scotty and Uhura to get that open after Starfleet would have secured it. Not to minimize Scotty's contribution, it just seemed reasonable.
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Old December 28 2008, 01:27 PM   #32
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Re: Why so little Uhura in ST3?

tranya wrote: View Post
DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
I'm not sure if it was just the author's imagining or part of a bit of cut material, but in the novelization, Uhura goes to the Vulcan embassy and Sarek, just ahead of Federation security and gets asylum, which is how she got to Vulcan.

Not sure what the actual reason for her lack of usage was, but I can easily imagine the execs considering that not as exciting so they wanted it left out.
Yeah, the novelization was top notch, full of awesome extra bits like this -- it was by far my favorite novelization. I remember reading it as a kid and getting at least 100 pages into it and still hadn't reached the first scene of the movie.
The novelizations of both II AND III had a lot in them that was cut from the final films. The whole Saavik/David subplot being the biggest chunk. Uhura's expanded part in the breakout of McCoy and the theft of the Enterprise was the other one.(Not only did she provide covert transport to the ship, but she hacked Starfleet Communications and scrambled them up so badly that only the Excelsior even knew about the attempt for some time. THEN she made a run for the Vulcan embassy.)
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Old December 28 2008, 01:51 PM   #33
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Re: Why so little Uhura in ST3?

JoeD80 wrote: View Post
Jarrott2 wrote: View Post
I hated it that they blew up the Enterprise. One of my beefs with all the movies is that the Enterprise was never really grand it always ended up getting pumeled or destroyed.
Uh...it got destroyed for a very good reason in Trek III though -- because Kirk was trying to save his f'n life. One of my favorite scenes of all Trek when the Klingons walk on to the bridge and find the computer counting down to 0. And Kirk is obviously upset at having to have destroyed it. Very dramatic.
And it was better than having the old girl scrapped, which was what Morrow wanted to do to her.

I remember there being talk going about back at the time (early 80s) that got picked up on by some novel writers and the writers for DC comics that the Federation and Starfleet were undergoing a severe internal crisis, centered around it's becoming less and less of a "frontier" organization and starting the process of becoming a "mature" one.

Advances in communications meant that the local Captain on the scene had no excuse NOT to radio back to Headquarters for instructions on a regular basis, even duing crisis situations. "Cowboy diplomacy" (as Picard would later referr to it while speaking to Spock) was on it's way out the door. In essence, we were witnessing the beginning of the death of the TOS Federation and the birth of the TNG Federation.

In that contex, Kirk and his crew were seen as something in the nature of throwbacks to a way of doing things that was no longer in vogue with the Federation Powers that Be. Prior to the Genesis Incident, their record of success sheilded them from too much criticism.

Kirk comes out of the Genesis Incident looking weak and vulnerable, so the elements that were working towards his ouster seized the moment. That was why Kirk couldn't get an answer to the question of getting another ship. That's why Mr Adventure referred to Uhura's carrer as "winding down".

Kirk and company were to be basically swept under the rug and KEPT there. Only the "Whalesong Incident" saved their collective bacon.
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Old December 28 2008, 10:08 PM   #34
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Re: Why so little Uhura in ST3?

darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
The novelizations of both II AND III had a lot in them that was cut from the final films. The whole Saavik/David subplot being the biggest chunk.
Fairer to say that Vonda McIntyre did lots of extrapolation as she wrote the novelizations. There was never any scripts that had actual romance between Saavik and David, just suggestive cut-away shots, posed publicity stills, etc, in much the same way as Meyer shot the alternative version of the ST II elevator scene, to suggest (in some takes) that Saavik and Kirk were attracted.

Uhura's expanded part in the breakout of McCoy and the theft of the Enterprise was the other one.(Not only did she provide covert transport to the ship, but she hacked Starfleet Communications and scrambled them up so badly that only the Excelsior even knew about the attempt for some time. THEN she made a run for the Vulcan embassy.)
Again, this wasn't scripted.
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Old December 28 2008, 10:36 PM   #35
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Re: Why so little Uhura in ST3?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
The novelizations of both II AND III had a lot in them that was cut from the final films. The whole Saavik/David subplot being the biggest chunk.
Fairer to say that Vonda McIntyre did lots of extrapolation as she wrote the novelizations. There was never any scripts that had actual romance between Saavik and David, just suggestive cut-away shots, posed publicity stills, etc, in much the same way as Meyer shot the alternative version of the ST II elevator scene, to suggest (in some takes) that Saavik and Kirk were attracted.

Uhura's expanded part in the breakout of McCoy and the theft of the Enterprise was the other one.(Not only did she provide covert transport to the ship, but she hacked Starfleet Communications and scrambled them up so badly that only the Excelsior even knew about the attempt for some time. THEN she made a run for the Vulcan embassy.)
Again, this wasn't scripted.
My understanding is that novelization writers work from at least a semi-final version of the script. Sometimes a major rewrite strikes portions of it or substantially alters them.

I know that at least one late version of the script of WoK (for example) has Saavik teasing David on the bridge in the final scene about "indeed being a bastard", which was part of the David/Saavik subplot.

Obviously THAT didn't make it into the final cut either.

*EDIT* FOUND IT! Link to the semi-final script...read the David/Saavik interactions, esp in the final scene:

http://st-minutiae.com/academy/literature329/twok.txt

They also have the script for TSFS, which doesn't have the Uhura material, but has more matieral continuing the David/Saavik arc.

It's also interesting that the TSFS script has the original plot configuration, OPENING with the discovery of Spock's torpedo, etc, which closes a LOT of the plotholes that developed in the final version>

http://st-minutiae.com/academy/literature329/tsfs.txt

It also has a reference to the "Hall of Ancient Thought"

Last edited by darkwing_duck1; December 28 2008 at 11:04 PM. Reason: add link
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Old December 28 2008, 11:32 PM   #36
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Re: Why so little Uhura in ST3?

darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
My understanding is that novelization writers work from at least a semi-final version of the script. Sometimes a major rewrite strikes portions of it or substantially alters them.
Yes, of course, but Vonda McIntyre also did lots of extrapolation of her own as she wrote the novelizations.

I know that at least one late version of the script of WoK (for example) has Saavik teasing David on the bridge in the final scene about "indeed being a bastard", which was part of the David/Saavik subplot.
Exactly, but the "subplot" was never actually there in the script. The teasing lines were the barest suggestion of an attraction, which McIntyre then had to develop into something more. It was more improvisation on set, and a hope (by Harve Bennett?) for what might come about if Saavik and David ever became the new Decker and Ilia of a series of telemovies, to carry the legacy after the departures of Nimoy and (eventually) Shatner.

Of course, at the time of writing "II", she didn't know that Saavik would end up have to do pon farr with young Spock in ST III, which further complicated the David scenes. IIRC, the novelization of ST II even had Saavik tinkering with the instructions for launching Spock's burial tube, not knowing if any of that would even be followed up in the writing of the third movie, if there was to be one.

It also has a reference to the "Hall of Ancient Thought"
Yep, and from that one line, McIntyre had to develop the whole katra-needs-to-reunite-with-body-one-more-time stuff, which is why Sarek was asking Kirk why Spock's body wasn't brought home.
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Old December 28 2008, 11:42 PM   #37
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Re: Why so little Uhura in ST3?

I think my favorite scenes from the novelizations both involve the Project Genesis scientists- Khan's attack upon them in TWoK, and Carol's eulogies for them in TSFS. They're classic "wrong place at the wrong time" characters, and the novels elevate them beyond the brief cameos they get in the movies.

Kind of makes me wonder whether any books dealt with any of them besides Carol and David prior to the events of TWoK.
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Old December 29 2008, 03:24 AM   #38
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Re: Why so little Uhura in ST3?

JoeD80 wrote: View Post
Jarrott2 wrote: View Post
I hated it that they blew up the Enterprise. One of my beefs with all the movies is that the Enterprise was never really grand it always ended up getting pumeled or destroyed.
Uh...it got destroyed for a very good reason in Trek III though -- because Kirk was trying to save his f'n life. One of my favorite scenes of all Trek when the Klingons walk on to the bridge and find the computer counting down to 0. And Kirk is obviously upset at having to have destroyed it. Very dramatic.
Which leads to one of my favorite lines:

My God, Bones, what have I done?

You did what you had to do... you did what you always do... turn death into a fighting chance to survive
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Old December 29 2008, 03:25 AM   #39
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Re: Why so little Uhura in ST3?

DonIago wrote: View Post
Kind of makes me wonder whether any books dealt with any of them besides Carol and David prior to the events of TWoK.
When they do, you'll be able to track them here:
http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Vance_Madison (no listing yet for March)

http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Jedda_Adzhin-Dall
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Old December 29 2008, 03:48 AM   #40
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Re: Why so little Uhura in ST3?

Shatmandu wrote: View Post
I remember reading some slash about what Uhura did with "Mister Adventure" in that closet.

Jeez!

Joe, not easily shocked
Why did she lock him in there anyway? He obviously couldn't do anything to actually stop her, since 1) she outranked him, and 2) she could probably kick his ass if he tried anything.

Was she just pissed off about that remark he made about her career (which was not entirely untrue, mind you)?

Guess that proves a point: Never piss off Uhura.
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Old December 29 2008, 05:08 AM   #41
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Re: Why so little Uhura in ST3?

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
Why did she lock him in there anyway? He obviously couldn't do anything to actually stop her, since 1) she outranked him, and 2) she could probably kick his ass if he tried anything.
Once she beamed Kirk, McCoy, and Sulu up to the Enterprise, she had to make a break for it herself. Whether you buy into what McIntyre wrote (Uhura just barely makes it inside the Vulcan embassy gates as Starfleet security officers catch up to her) or you come up with an alternate means of her getting off-world and to Vulcan, locking Mr. Adventure in the closet means Uhura won't be missed from her sleepy little transporter station until her next check-in time. Whereas if Mr. Adventure is left to his own devices, you know he'll call security the minute she leaves the building.
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Old December 29 2008, 05:19 AM   #42
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Re: Why so little Uhura in ST3?

fra-gee-lay wrote: View Post
Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
Why did she lock him in there anyway? He obviously couldn't do anything to actually stop her, since 1) she outranked him, and 2) she could probably kick his ass if he tried anything.
Once she beamed Kirk, McCoy, and Sulu up to the Enterprise, she had to make a break for it herself. Whether you buy into what McIntyre wrote (Uhura just barely makes it inside the Vulcan embassy gates as Starfleet security officers catch up to her)
Interesting (and by that I mean "confusing"), that a world would need an embassy to a Federation of which it is a member...

or you come up with an alternate means of her getting off-world and to Vulcan, locking Mr. Adventure in the closet means Uhura won't be missed from her sleepy little transporter station until her next check-in time. Whereas if Mr. Adventure is left to his own devices, you know he'll call security the minute she leaves the building.
So why didn't she just stun him with her phaser? No need to lock him in a closet. Who knows how long he was stuck in there before Starfleet just happened to stumble across him. I'm guessing it wasn't that long (since Uhura was apparently not charged with murder in the next film), but was it anything other than blind luck - that Mr. Adventure didn't starve to death before somebody just *happened* to find him? Shit, she must have been some kind of pissed just because of that one little verbal snit he made...
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Old December 29 2008, 05:33 AM   #43
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Re: Why so little Uhura in ST3?

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
Shatmandu wrote: View Post
I remember reading some slash about what Uhura did with "Mister Adventure" in that closet.

Jeez!

Joe, not easily shocked
Why did she lock him in there anyway? He obviously couldn't do anything to actually stop her, since 1) she outranked him, and 2) she could probably kick his ass if he tried anything.

Was she just pissed off about that remark he made about her career (which was not entirely untrue, mind you)?

Guess that proves a point: Never piss off Uhura.
True that! But while Mr. Adventure was a punk, he might've messed up Uhura's escape, so she didn't want to take any chances and locked him away.

BTW, his career probably took a hit after that incident -- winding down prematurely, perhaps? I did like Vonda McIntyre's novel explanation for how Uhura had to stay behind to mess up communications to help Enterprise escape.

BTW, I believe they wanted to replace Enterprise with the Excelsior for the end of TVH and make it their new ship. Would've been cool!

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Old December 29 2008, 05:37 AM   #44
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Re: Why so little Uhura in ST3?

Red Ranger wrote: View Post
True that! But while Mr. Adventure was a punk, he might've messed up Uhura's escape, so she didn't want to take any chances and locked him away.

BTW, his career probably took a hit after that incident
It bloody well shouldn't have. Attitude notwithstanding, he was only doing his duty. Starfleet cannot be so fucking thick as to not notice that.

Apparently he shows up in Catalyst of Sorrows (well, looky here, apparently he survived after all...lucky him). I haven't read that yet. Anyone? What happened to him?
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Old December 29 2008, 05:48 AM   #45
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Re: Why so little Uhura in ST3?

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
Interesting (and by that I mean "confusing"), that a world would need an embassy to a Federation of which it is a member...
Members of the United Nations still have embassies in each other's countries. Why wouldn't Vulcans have a few places they could call home, just because they'd joined the UFP? Earth would have a few Earth embassies on Vulcan, too. The Vulcan Embassy on Earth was also mentioned in TMP (re Sonak's family).

but was it anything other than blind luck - that Mr. Adventure didn't starve to death before somebody just *happened* to find him? .
Did she lock him in, or just tell him to get into it, so he couldn't be penalized for what he'd otherwise witness?

She told Kirk she'd have him eating out her hand, so she didn't intend to leave him there forever.
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