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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Grade Lost Souls
Excellent 130 72.22%
Above Average 35 19.44%
Average 12 6.67%
Below Average 1 0.56%
Poor 2 1.11%
Voters: 180. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 26 2008, 04:48 PM   #391
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Just finished the book it was great though I found that the last Mantilis flashback degraded into a longer than necessary Regeneration rehash. But other that that it was agreat book, oh did anyone besides me find that the final defeat of the Borg to be ironic since the Caeliar basically did to them what the Borg did to countless other civilizations.
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Old December 26 2008, 05:57 PM   #392
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Just finished the book it was great though I found that the last Mantilis flashback degraded into a longer than necessary Regeneration rehash.
I'm not sure in what sense it's a "rehash" of an ENT episode. I found the entire Mantilis subplot to be a deeply moving story about desperation in the face of imminent death -- the realization that you have no future, that you are condemned to a slow and miserable death, that you will literally and metaphorically spend your life in the cold. The final sequence featuring the origin of the Borg was nothing like "Regeneration" -- amongst other things, "Regeneration" didn't feature, well, the origin of the Borg -- and it was a very disturbing sequence about how the desire for survival and for community can be perverted into something truly awful. The cannibalism sequence was especially disturbing.

Most of all, though, they're different tonally. The opening act of "Regeneration" is, in essence, a mini-zombie movie. This was totally different; this was a story about betrayal in the face of certain death, about the loss of your future, about realizing that no one will ever love you again. That's the power of Sedin's story -- the way she betrays her fellow Caeliar even as she is desperate to be a part of her people's community again. It's about guilt and loss and the certainty of death. "Regeneration" is much more simplistic -- it's just about monsters that are coming to get you. The Mantilis subplot is about how people make the choice to become monsters.

But other that that it was agreat book, oh did anyone besides me find that the final defeat of the Borg to be ironic since the Caeliar basically did to them what the Borg did to countless other civilizations.
I didn't find it ironic, because the liberated former drones were not enslaved by the Caeliar as the Borg had enslaved other civilizations; the liberated drones were given a choice, and, apparently, the vast majority of them chose to live as part of the Caeliar community.
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Old December 26 2008, 11:51 PM   #393
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Sci wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Just finished the book it was great though I found that the last Mantilis flashback degraded into a longer than necessary Regeneration rehash.
I'm not sure in what sense it's a "rehash" of an ENT episode. I found the entire Mantilis subplot to be a deeply moving story about desperation in the face of imminent death -- the realization that you have no future, that you are condemned to a slow and miserable death, that you will literally and metaphorically spend your life in the cold. The final sequence featuring the origin of the Borg was nothing like "Regeneration" -- amongst other things, "Regeneration" didn't feature, well, the origin of the Borg -- and it was a very disturbing sequence about how the desire for survival and for community can be perverted into something truly awful. The cannibalism sequence was especially disturbing.

Most of all, though, they're different tonally. The opening act of "Regeneration" is, in essence, a mini-zombie movie. This was totally different; this was a story about betrayal in the face of certain death, about the loss of your future, about realizing that no one will ever love you again. That's the power of Sedin's story -- the way she betrays her fellow Caeliar even as she is desperate to be a part of her people's community again. It's about guilt and loss and the certainty of death. "Regeneration" is much more simplistic -- it's just about monsters that are coming to get you. The Mantilis subplot is about how people make the choice to become monsters.
I was talkng about the part after Graylock, Thayer, and Pembleton become the first drones where the inhabitants of the planet Mantilis crashed on showed up, who like the guys at the begining of Regeneration find the reackage and the Borg drones in it and get assimilated
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Old December 27 2008, 12:21 AM   #394
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Just finished the book it was great though I found that the last Mantilis flashback degraded into a longer than necessary Regeneration rehash.
I'm not sure in what sense it's a "rehash" of an ENT episode. I found the entire Mantilis subplot to be a deeply moving story about desperation in the face of imminent death -- the realization that you have no future, that you are condemned to a slow and miserable death, that you will literally and metaphorically spend your life in the cold. The final sequence featuring the origin of the Borg was nothing like "Regeneration" -- amongst other things, "Regeneration" didn't feature, well, the origin of the Borg -- and it was a very disturbing sequence about how the desire for survival and for community can be perverted into something truly awful. The cannibalism sequence was especially disturbing.

Most of all, though, they're different tonally. The opening act of "Regeneration" is, in essence, a mini-zombie movie. This was totally different; this was a story about betrayal in the face of certain death, about the loss of your future, about realizing that no one will ever love you again. That's the power of Sedin's story -- the way she betrays her fellow Caeliar even as she is desperate to be a part of her people's community again. It's about guilt and loss and the certainty of death. "Regeneration" is much more simplistic -- it's just about monsters that are coming to get you. The Mantilis subplot is about how people make the choice to become monsters.
I was talkng about the part after Graylock, Thayer, and Pembleton become the first drones where the inhabitants of the planet Mantilis crashed on showed up, who like the guys at the begining of Regeneration find the reackage and the Borg drones in it and get assimilated
I still don't think that's much of a re-hash. It establishes a lot of information about the first species to be subjugated by the Borg, after all.
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Old December 27 2008, 12:42 AM   #395
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Sci wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post

I'm not sure in what sense it's a "rehash" of an ENT episode. I found the entire Mantilis subplot to be a deeply moving story about desperation in the face of imminent death -- the realization that you have no future, that you are condemned to a slow and miserable death, that you will literally and metaphorically spend your life in the cold. The final sequence featuring the origin of the Borg was nothing like "Regeneration" -- amongst other things, "Regeneration" didn't feature, well, the origin of the Borg -- and it was a very disturbing sequence about how the desire for survival and for community can be perverted into something truly awful. The cannibalism sequence was especially disturbing.

Most of all, though, they're different tonally. The opening act of "Regeneration" is, in essence, a mini-zombie movie. This was totally different; this was a story about betrayal in the face of certain death, about the loss of your future, about realizing that no one will ever love you again. That's the power of Sedin's story -- the way she betrays her fellow Caeliar even as she is desperate to be a part of her people's community again. It's about guilt and loss and the certainty of death. "Regeneration" is much more simplistic -- it's just about monsters that are coming to get you. The Mantilis subplot is about how people make the choice to become monsters.
I was talkng about the part after Graylock, Thayer, and Pembleton become the first drones where the inhabitants of the planet Mantilis crashed on showed up, who like the guys at the begining of Regeneration find the reackage and the Borg drones in it and get assimilated
I still don't think that's much of a re-hash. It establishes a lot of information about the first species to be subjugated by the Borg, after all.
Which was interesting it's just that it kind of draged on a little
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Old December 27 2008, 06:31 PM   #396
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

I disagree.The nature of the situation meant that both the Caeliar and the humans stuck on Mantilis literally needed to be at the end of their ropes to consider each other as survival partners.

I know in the stranded teams shoes I'd have to be at the brink of death to consider becoming a host to another organism,no matter the level of advancement.

And it takes time to go from 'crashed,but survivable' to 'sh#t,its 30 below and we're out of food'.


Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post

I was talkng about the part after Graylock, Thayer, and Pembleton become the first drones where the inhabitants of the planet Mantilis crashed on showed up, who like the guys at the begining of Regeneration find the reackage and the Borg drones in it and get assimilated
I still don't think that's much of a re-hash. It establishes a lot of information about the first species to be subjugated by the Borg, after all.
Which was interesting it's just that it kind of draged on a little
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Old December 27 2008, 07:23 PM   #397
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

David Mack wrote: View Post
RikerLover wrote: View Post
One question though. What were Beverly and Deanna drinking - champagne or synethol?
It's never said, though I can't imagine that Beverly and Deanna would be so foolish as to drink real alcohol during pregnancy. Maybe they had ginger ale in their glasses? ;-)
So long it's actual ginger in the ale, and they left out the sodium(or anything else with a name ending in) benzoate. Which, given 24th Century dietary medicine, I'd consider a safe bet. :-)
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Old December 28 2008, 06:02 AM   #398
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Damn you!

And, I mean that with all the love and affection I have I am a teacher in Utah on Christmas break. I decided that I needed to read a trek book or 2 over my wonderful vacation, in between playing with my kids and running all over hell and back visiting family. I haven't read a trek book in four years. So, I decided to skip over the "Time to..." books and start up with Destiny. I downloaded the first 2 books from fictionwise.com and read them in 2 days. It's saturday night, 8 PM, and I finished reading book 2. I was enthralled, exhilerated, and ready for book 3. I stroll over to my mac, bring up fictionwise.com to download book 3, and guess what!? They don't have book 3! I called local retailers here (no real bookstore in my neck of the woods, just Target and Walmart), and no one had the book. In my frantic desperation to find out what happens next, I run out to a Barnes and Noble in Orem (about 16 miles from my current location) to acquire book 3. When I arrive, they had one copy left. WHEEEE!!!! I grab the book, and get myself and my wife some coffee at the counter. As I was reading the first page, the lovely clerk rang up my book and the coffee. The total, I kid you not, came to $17.01. 1701!!! This adventure was meant to be!!!

Now, if you'll excuse me, i'll be reading book 3 now. I just wanted to share my little adventure. Review to come!

P.S. Mack, you're my new favorite Trek author!
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Old December 28 2008, 06:16 AM   #399
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

^ I have a feeling you'll enjoy it. I had a similar trek (pun intended) in my search for my copy.
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Old December 28 2008, 10:52 PM   #400
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

There is one thing that still remains unanswered from Destiny Book 3 (page 323) How did the S.C.E make an entire planet disappear?
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Old December 28 2008, 10:56 PM   #401
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Stephen! wrote: View Post
There is one thing that still remains unanswered from Destiny Book 3 (page 323) How did the S.C.E make an entire planet disappear?
They probably put it in a box.
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Old December 29 2008, 12:32 AM   #402
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Stephen! wrote: View Post
There is one thing that still remains unanswered from Destiny Book 3 (page 323) How did the S.C.E make an entire planet disappear?
Lots and lots of black paint....
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Old December 29 2008, 12:36 AM   #403
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

I was going to post a longer review but then.. well couldn't be bothered. It's odd, the series has killed (not because I thought it was bad) any interest I have in reading any future Star Trek fiction, like it was the perfect jumping off point.
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Old December 29 2008, 01:48 AM   #404
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
I was going to post a longer review but then.. well couldn't be bothered. It's odd, the series has killed (not because I thought it was bad) any interest I have in reading any future Star Trek fiction, like it was the perfect jumping off point.
Really? Why so?
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Old December 29 2008, 02:34 AM   #405
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
I was going to post a longer review but then.. well couldn't be bothered. It's odd, the series has killed (not because I thought it was bad) any interest I have in reading any future Star Trek fiction, like it was the perfect jumping off point.
I have to be honest and admit that I had a similar thought when I read the last chapter of Destiny. It seemed like the perfect ending not only for the novels but for Trek itself. The Federation's greatest enemy was destroyed not by force but by the ideals upon which the Federation was founded. While the Federation and its allies are hurt, they are still strong and they are coming together more and more. It just seemed like the perfect ending to me.

That being said I plan to continue reading anyway.
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