Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan in 70mm

[Indysolo]

Tonight, doubleohfive and I caught a screening of TWOK in 70mm. It was fantastic. The print was only slightly faded, and was clean and looked great. What we thought might be a grainy film was anything but grainy, looking glossy and very sharp. And the sound was also above average. This is one of those films that I've had on video since 1983, so it's imprinted on my brain. I saw it when it came out and I've seen it several times in the theater since (once on the Paramount lot for a special showing of the DVD longer version) and without a doubt, this was the absolute finest I've ever seen the movie. Everything about it was just right. If you get the chance, see The Wrath of Khan in the theater.

And the reason I'm not calling it "Star Trek II" is because the 70mm prints DO NOT have the roman numeral "II" in the main title! It simply says "Star Trek" and underneath that "The Wrath of Khan".

Also tonight we saw a 70mm print of ALIEN which looked and sounded fantastic, too. It was a great evening. I'm sure doubleohfive also had a good time.

Neil

[doubleohfive]

The cinematography was stellar! It really was a fantastic outing and its so true what they say about there being a marked difference between watching a movie at home versus in a theater. It was almost bone-chilling when Kirk shouts out KHAAAAAAAN!!! and the Ceti eels were infinitely more creepy.

All in all, excellent film!

[Haytil]

I love seeing "Wrath of Khan" in the theaters. I recommend it whenever one has the opportunity!

Because it's a fan favorite, the energy and excitement in the audience is ALWAYS high - plenty of cheering and clapping...and everyone shouts "KHAAAAAN!" at that right moment.

[22 Stars]

Hey guys, that's great. My job at Paramount was actually tracking the film prints. There are very few 70mm around and even fewer 70mm projectors to show them on, where did they screen these?

[trevanian]

22 Stars wrote:

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Hey guys, that's great. My job at Paramount was actually tracking the film prints. There are very few 70mm around and even fewer 70mm projectors to show them on, where did they screen these?

Yeah, if this is going to make rounds I'd be interested myself, as the only time we've seen KHAN projected in Portland in the 21st century was a very faded very red 35 print, yet there is a theater capable of showing 70mm in town. I don't think that highly of the cinematography, but the color saturation on the vfx in the nebula would be enough to get me to see it theatrically again, plus 'the experience.'

[22 Stars]

I hear ya, the mutara nebula stuff would look great. Those prints are HUGE, and it was decided a few years ago to leave just a few in the film depots. I'm suprised that anyone booked the 70mm and that Paramount gave the ok. I feel bad for the shipper who had to deliver the thing, hope they had a mini-forklift.

[Indysolo]

22 Stars wrote:

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Hey guys, that's great. My job at Paramount was actually tracking the film prints. There are very few 70mm around and even fewer 70mm projectors to show them on, where did they screen these?

The Royal Theater in West LA is having a 70mm retrospective. Today is the last day and they are showing The Hunt For Red October and 2001: a space odyssey. They've also played The Remains of the Day, Tommy, Pink Floyd: The Wall, Aliens, The Abyss, Titanic, Top Gun, Gremlins, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and The Untouchables. I only made it to TWOK and ALIEN as they didn't have a festival pass and were charging separate admissions.

Neil

[Therin of Andor]

Indysolo wrote:

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And the reason I'm not calling it "Star Trek II" is because the 70mm prints DO NOT have the roman numeral "II" in the main title! It simply says "Star Trek" and underneath that "The Wrath of Khan".

A lot of people still insist we dreamt that title screen on premiere night.

[cardinal biggles]

Any chance this'll be making its way to the east coast? I'd love to catch a screening!

[Indysolo]

Theaters that can show 70mm are not that common anymore, so I wouldn't hold my breath, sadly.

Neil

[Mr. B]

Out of curiosity, do 70mm blow up prints look better than standard 35mm?

[trevanian]

Mr. B wrote:

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Out of curiosity, do 70mm blow up prints look better than standard 35mm?

No, they look two to four times grainier, but you trade that for image size.

70mm blowups often suck visually (TUC had some prints that were almost unwatchable -- I know, I had to try to watch one), but they do have a much better soundtrack because 5 whole mm were allocated for it.

If you've seen a wellshot flick that was originated on 65mm movie as opposed to a 35 blowup, the difference is ... so far beyond huge.

[Indysolo]

trevanian wrote:

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No, they look two to four times grainier, but you trade that for image size.

70mm blowups often suck visually

I'm going to disagree totally with that. I just saw these movies and marveled at how grain free, beautiful and bright the images were. I had people tell me (presumably based off of recent video transfers) that TWOK would be a grainy mess, but it was anything but. It was a very detailed image and very pleasant looking.

And of course the 6-track magnetic tracks were wonderful.

Neil

[trevanian]

Indysolo wrote:

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I'm going to disagree totally with that. I just saw these movies and marveled at how grain free, beautiful and bright the images were. I had people tell me (presumably based off of recent video transfers) that TWOK would be a grainy mess, but it was anything but. It was a very detailed image and very pleasant looking.

And of course the 6-track magnetic tracks were wonderful.

Neil

I've seen some 35 blowups that weren't objectionable, but they were lowgrain bright pics to start with (SILVERADO comes to mind.) TWOK was shot on fairly fast somewhat grainy stock, so these all compound the blowup issue.

To be fair, I have only seen a bad 35mm print of TWOK in recent years ... I haven't seen a fresh one since 1982, and at that time I saw it a couple times in 35 and a couple in 70, and the only dif I recall was that you could hear the 'khan!' echo more times in the 70 version.

[Epsilon-9]

Well I’m beaming up and old thread here.

I saw also saw Star Trek II the wrath of Khan at the Empire Lancaster Square screen 1 London on Sunday 8th October 1989 in 70mm Dolby stereo THX sound system via the cinemas original 13KW JBL sound system.

It was basically a Star Trek marathon that started at 11am and end around 9:20 9:30pm?

It included a rare screening of Star Trek V in at the Empire in THX because it was booked in at the Plaza which is near Piccadilly Circus.

The low end on the JBL sound system was just stunningly out of this world!

I thought I’ve seen Star Trek at the local cinemas I was wrong!

All the rich soft details of the soundtrack of each film was hyper realistic in my, face chest stomach, the whole cinema rumbled like what old Sensurround did for “Earthquake” in (1974) in fact better!

Star Trek the motion picture was 35mm optical Dolby stereo type A print
Even this felt like 70mm the dynamic range was warp factor 10 fantastic with the wormhole sequence. The cinema rumbled deeply as it uses the sub bass extension module on the Dolby CP200 processor to enhance the lows. The whizzing sound effects moved along the surrounds caught my total attention! LCR fronts from 20 meters away from the screen, (I was sat in the circle or sweet spot) the details was crystal clear.

All the rest was 70mm

Star Trek II when the opening titles started the low end 40Hz that humming pulse sound that appears on the Paramount Pictures logo, was deeply pressing on my body! Now try this at home with the bluray while maintaining uniform frequency response!

The scene where Sulu is thrown from the helm was felt like a body just landed right in front of me, on the floor it was that realistic it was scary!

When Khan lifts Chekov off the floor “why” even that was felt like JOLT and not one single hint of audible distortion!

When Khan shoves those things down there ears it was heart DEEP thumping beat that was so distributing, yet very clear! Creepy!

When the Enterprise leaves space dock the low end rumble felt like a mild earthquake and its about to get better far better!

When Khan unlashes his disgruntled revenge on the Enterprise it was like truck hit the side of the cinema! It was that hard that deep it was pure 70mm Dolby JBL THX performance, yeah try that at home!

When captain Terrell vaporized one the scientists even that pasher hit was felt! Yes the phaser I kidd you not! So its kinder a bit up from where the sub bass plays from its mostly bass mid range.

Empire was sussed out for bass and sub bass, and its still untouchable to this day with a 56KW JBL THX sound system for greater headroom!


When the final battle between Reliant and Enterprise and James Horner’s score that had a few moments on its own, it felt fantastic the bass from the screen fronts was hard hitting and you’d thing it would be mostly just heard with lots of high end on the HF horns. No this was well balanced as well as EQ.

I was told by one of the former chief projectionists at the site now retired, it was mostly the “Dolby preamps” that was reasonable for the high performance.

THX, is just a certification of standards that has to be met.

When the Enterprise was leaving the battleground the score was just going deep pounding nuts! It was trilling and I can still to this day recall 90% of how it suppose to sound and feel and that is rather rare, for one to remember something 20 years ago.

When Genesis exploded it was like WHAM! KABOOM! It wasn’t flabby bass/sub bas it was hard edge bass to sub bass in my face!!
If I played it like that at home, I’d have the neighbours bitching and moaning LOL it takes nearly 120dbc and that is LOUD!

When music cuts in over the Genesis planet for the final end of the film, it deep, deep low end, it was priceless!

When Spock narrated the words “Space the final frontier” and you might find in your homes the bluray sounding thin on bass/sub bass. The 70mm Dolby stereo type A print was a rolling low end rumble pulse that ended with mild jolt then the credits rolled.

It was awesome and yes I recall very clearly for…
Star Trek III
Star Trek IV
Star Trek V