RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,579
Posts: 5,403,224
Members: 24,865
Currently online: 479
Newest member: shyrim

TrekToday headlines

October-November 2014 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Cho Selfie TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

TPTB To Shatner: Shhh!
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Mystery Mini Vinyl Figure Display Box
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

The Red Shirt Diaries Episode Five
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

Shatner In Trek 3? Well Maybe
By: T'Bonz on Sep 28

Retro Review: Shadows and Symbols
By: Michelle on Sep 27

Meyer: Revitalizing Star Trek
By: T'Bonz on Sep 26

Trek Costumes To Be Auctioned
By: T'Bonz on Sep 25

Hulu Snaps up Abrams-Produced Drama
By: T'Bonz on Sep 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 16 2008, 10:26 PM   #16
David Mack
Writer
 
David Mack's Avatar
 
Location: New York, NY
View David Mack's Twitter Profile
Re: German expressions in recent Trek novels

Cut wrote: View Post
I have been offered to review the german translation of the Vanguard series. Not being a TOS fan first (I grew up with 'The Next Generation') I'd like to use the oppurtunity to ask if there are books that you'd consider required reading to grasp the Vanguard series.
Nope, you do not need to read any other Star Trek books before starting the Vanguard saga. Although it will feel more familiar if you have watched the original Star Trek television series, it's not necessary to have seen that.

Enjoy the Vanguard saga!

Best,
David Mack
__________________
~ David Mack | "Where were you when the page was blank?" — Truman Capote

Join me on Facebook & Twitter
David Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16 2008, 10:29 PM   #17
EmperorKalan
Commander
 
Re: German expressions in recent Trek novels

ronny wrote: View Post
Where's the USS Bill of Rights from? I'm guessing that's in a Carey book.
Correct'amundo!

Best Destiny.
__________________
This is the Free Trader Beowulf, calling anyone...
Mayday, Mayday...
we are under attack...
main drive is gone...
turret number one not responding...
Mayday...
losing cabin pressure fast...
calling anyone...
please help...
EmperorKalan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16 2008, 10:32 PM   #18
Cut
Lieutenant
 
Location: Germany
Re: German expressions in recent Trek novels

Blizzard wrote: View Post
Cut, a friendly alert, posting three+ times in a thread in a row is against board rules. In the future if you find you have more to say and you were the last to post please utilize the Edit button on your post. Or if you have multiple people to reply to you can use the Multi-Quote button to quote multiple posts at once.

Thanks and welcome to the board.
My bad. I am sorry for that and thank you for the friendly heads-up. It won't happen again.


David Mack wrote: View Post
Nope, you do not need to read any other Star Trek books before starting the Vanguard saga. Although it will feel more familiar if you have watched the original Star Trek television series, it's not necessary to have seen that.

Enjoy the Vanguard saga!

Best,
David Mack
I have seen TOS and have it on tape (at least most parts of it) so I should be fine. I am looking forward to Vanguard as well as the Destiny trilogy, which I just started. That one of course in original language.
__________________
Sapere aude.
Cut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16 2008, 11:25 PM   #19
Baerbel Haddrell
Commodore
 
Baerbel Haddrell's Avatar
 
Location: GB
Re: German expressions in recent Trek novels

Defcon wrote: View Post
Cut wrote: View Post
As a native german speaker I find it quite nice
Really? I think it's annoying as hell. Especially the German/English mix Graylock uses. There's enough Denglisch (excessive use of english words in German; and yes, we have created a word for that ) in the German language today, so I don't really need to see the same from the opposite side in my English Trek Literature.
I very much agree with you.

I have nothing against German words when they are used in a realistic context. For example, Picard and Mueller use native swear words on rare occasions or religious exclamations. But I have never heard any German use this messy version.


From my review of "Destiny: Gods of Night"

There is just a minor thing here that irritated me. It is very minor compared to the rest of this excellent book but I want to mention it. What is it about Germans (Is that man Austrian or German?) in American literature or movies sometimes? All right, it was not as bad as the dreadful broken, misused and misspelled German Marvel inserted years ago into the X-Men when Nightcrawler appeared but I have never met any German who speaks English and sprinkles German words into his or her English as found also in this book. I certainly don`t. Something else: Be careful with literal translations. “Scheisskopf” is not a swear word that exists in the German language. I had to laugh when I read that because I remember that my husband wanted to be clever and used this word when driving after I had told him off for swearing at the wheel when our daughter is sitting on the back seat.
__________________
Bleach (Ichigo to Muramasa) "We all make mistakes. You just have to accept what happened and fix what you can."
Baerbel Haddrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16 2008, 11:48 PM   #20
teacock
Admiral
 
Location: teacake
Re: German expressions in recent Trek novels

Yes there's German used by the Austrian engineer in Kobayashi Maru, on the Columbia.

It sounds like some bad parody of Scotty.

".. the relays and energizers are completely fertiggemacht"
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17 2008, 12:13 AM   #21
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: German expressions in recent Trek novels

Cut wrote: View Post
Funnyly we included some terms in our denglish that aren't even english (say 'handy' for mobile phone).
Well, "handy" is an English word, but it isn't used to mean a mobile phone. It means "convenient, useful, in easy reach," which I guess could describe a mobile phone, though.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17 2008, 12:16 AM   #22
Cut
Lieutenant
 
Location: Germany
Re: German expressions in recent Trek novels

Christopher wrote: View Post
Cut wrote: View Post
Funnyly we included some terms in our denglish that aren't even english (say 'handy' for mobile phone).
Well, "handy" is an English word, but it isn't used to mean a mobile phone. It means "convenient, useful, in easy reach," which I guess could describe a mobile phone, though.
Yes, you are right. I shouldn't have said that handy isn't an english word. That was not what I meant. I was going for the descripancy in meaning here.

By the way, I looked up 'kaput' and it means the same in english as in german (than written with another T). So Graylock seems to be speaking english in that instant.

I feel like I am being given a free brush up on my english vocabulary here from a published writer.

Thanks for that
__________________
Sapere aude.
Cut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17 2008, 12:35 AM   #23
Dinklebot
That Wizard
 
Dinklebot's Avatar
 
Location: "... came from the Moon."
View Dinklebot's Twitter Profile
Re: German expressions in recent Trek novels

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
USS Der Sonnenaufgang
You're kidding, right
__________________
aka SPCTRE

"It would not be an Ubisoft game if you didn’t need to reach a high point and look around like a confused pigeon."
- Brendan Caldwell
Dinklebot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 17 2008, 01:50 AM   #24
Ayelbourne
Fleet Captain
 
Re: German expressions in recent Trek novels

SPCTRE wrote: View Post
captcalhoun wrote: View Post
USS Der Sonnenaufgang
You're kidding, right
Nope, he isn't.
It was especially funny, when the name was used together with the english article "the".
Two articles for one noun was a bit much, even for my Marvel-German-tortured self.

Still a great book, though.
Ayelbourne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17 2008, 01:59 AM   #25
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: German expressions in recent Trek novels

Baerbel Haddrell wrote: View Post
There is just a minor thing here that irritated me. It is very minor compared to the rest of this excellent book but I want to mention it. What is it about Germans (Is that man Austrian or German?) in American literature or movies sometimes? All right, it was not as bad as the dreadful broken, misused and misspelled German Marvel inserted years ago into the X-Men when Nightcrawler appeared but I have never met any German who speaks English and sprinkles German words into his or her English as found also in this book. I certainly don`t. Something else: Be careful with literal translations. “Scheisskopf” is not a swear word that exists in the German language. I had to laugh when I read that because I remember that my husband wanted to be clever and used this word when driving after I had told him off for swearing at the wheel when our daughter is sitting on the back seat.
I think you might find that English popular literature tends to portray many foreign characters as speaking mostly English and mixing in words from their native tongue to create the impression of foreign-ness.

It's sorta like how the Klingon characters' dialogue is in English most of the time, except for random things like them mentioning how many kellicams away something is.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17 2008, 10:45 AM   #26
Baerbel Haddrell
Commodore
 
Baerbel Haddrell's Avatar
 
Location: GB
Re: German expressions in recent Trek novels

I don`t mind the trick when writers insert alien swear words into books because it is more acceptable to readers, especially those who are more sensitive to so-called bad language. I find it amusing and Klingons being Klingons, I know they have a colourful language in that regard.

But I still don`t see the point why things like distances, time etc. are often left in the alien language. That is worse than incomprehensible technobabble. If that happens occasionally, I don`t mind it but when it happens again and again, my irritation grows.
__________________
Bleach (Ichigo to Muramasa) "We all make mistakes. You just have to accept what happened and fix what you can."
Baerbel Haddrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17 2008, 11:05 AM   #27
captcalhoun
Admiral
 
Location: everywhere
Re: German expressions in recent Trek novels

god you musta hated Classic BSG with all the talk of 'Centons' then, and you'd've hated Bob Budiansky's US Transformers comics with their use of Breems and Vorns...

i just want some Polish swearwords for my book...
captcalhoun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17 2008, 11:35 AM   #28
iguana_tonante
Admiral
 
iguana_tonante's Avatar
 
Location: Italy, EU
Re: German expressions in recent Trek novels

Ayelbourne wrote: View Post
SPCTRE wrote: View Post
captcalhoun wrote: View Post
USS Der Sonnenaufgang
You're kidding, right
Nope, he isn't.
It was especially funny, when the name was used together with the english article "the".
Two articles for one noun was a bit much, even for my Marvel-German-tortured self.
My German is minimal at best, does it mean "sun's exit"? As in "sunrise"?

On the same note, I usually like when writers instill some Italian in the speech (like the recent Doctor Who's usual "Molto bene"). Star Trek have done it especially with surnames: in the end the characters turn out to be Italian-American instead of Italian, but it's nice nonetheless.
I remember in the first movie when Shatner's wife played a character named Chief Di Falco, an Italian last name. Funnily, the Italian dub translated literally it as "Capo Di Falco", which also means "Falcon's Head", so I was convinced for years that she was Native American or something like that.
__________________
Scientist. Gentleman. Teacher. Fighter. Lover. Father.
iguana_tonante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17 2008, 12:03 PM   #29
Cut
Lieutenant
 
Location: Germany
Re: German expressions in recent Trek novels

I might help out here

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
My German is minimal at best, does it mean "sun's exit"? As in "sunrise"?
'Sonnenaufgang' is the german word for 'sunrise'.

My italian is far worse than your german I presume. I have been venturing to Lago di Gardo for years now (a lovely place!) and I still have to pick up more of the language than the most basic expressions. I am a bit ashamed of that fact, as I always plan to learn some italien each year, and somberly fail...
__________________
Sapere aude.

Last edited by Cut; December 17 2008 at 03:42 PM.
Cut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17 2008, 01:43 PM   #30
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: German expressions in recent Trek novels

Sci wrote: View Post
It's sorta like how the Klingon characters' dialogue is in English most of the time, except for random things like them mentioning how many kellicams away something is.
Well, what's wrong with that? A kellicam is a distinct unit of measurement, no doubt different in length from a kilometer. 500 kellicams would be a different distance from 500 km, just as 500 km would be different from 500 miles. It's not just an arbitrary substitution of a foreign term for the same thing; it's the correct name for the specific unit of measurement being used.

I mean, if I say that I'm reading 500 roentgens of radiation, that's not a gratuitous insertion of a German word, because that's the correct and only name for that particular unit of measurement.


Cut wrote: View Post
'Sonnenaufgang' means 'sunrise', the setting of the sun in the morning.
Actually the word "setting" only refers to the sun going down at night. It's related to "sit" or "settle."
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
expressions, german, novels, recent

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:35 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.