"Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

USS Fardell · December 12 2008, 08:04 AM

Is the 'Fury' Kes a Mirror Kes?

Is this likely?

Does this solve the personality issues?

Does this bring up any other issues? (IE she doesn't realise that Voyager is mirror to the one that she is familiar with?)

davidant32 · December 12 2008, 08:05 AM

that would be nice but she clearly has memories of being a good Kes.

remember the hologram she made for herself at the end?

RoJoHen · December 12 2008, 04:02 PM

No, she is menopausal Kes.

Ocampan menopause is rough.

Lynx · December 12 2008, 08:57 PM

USS Fardell wrote:

Is the 'Fury' Kes a Mirror Kes?

Is this likely?

Does this solve the personality issues?

Does this bring up any other issues? (IE she doesn't realise that Voyager is mirror to the one that she is familiar with?)

The "String Theory" books have come up with a plausible explanation what the pathetic wreck we saw in "Fury" really was. It was not the real Kes.

exodus · December 12 2008, 09:39 PM

Lynx wrote:

USS Fardell wrote:

Is the 'Fury' Kes a Mirror Kes?

Is this likely?

Does this solve the personality issues?

Does this bring up any other issues? (IE she doesn't realise that Voyager is mirror to the one that she is familiar with?)

The "String Theory" books have come up with a plausible explanation what the pathetic wreck we saw in "Fury" really was. It was not the real Kes.

Books aren't canon.

Lynx · December 12 2008, 09:47 PM

^^
Doesn't matter. The Voyager story continues in the books and the explanations in the "String Theory" books are plausible.

And acceptable for many fans.

exodus · December 12 2008, 10:03 PM

Lynx wrote:

^^
Doesn't matter. The Voyager story continues in the books and the explanations in the "String Theory" books are plausible.

And acceptable for many fans.

Fans don't run the franchese and fans consider canon paramount.

We hold up canon on the board all the time due to it. If they didn't, so many wouldn't be questioning the J.J.Abrams film.

Paramount are the only ones who can give the ok on what is canon and what is not because they own the licence. The fans have no say in that matter because they can't overrule what is legal and binding.

Plecostomus · December 12 2008, 10:09 PM

exodus wrote:

...and fans consider canon paramount.

Not all of us do, many of us are open minded enough to accept alternatives and discuss "what if" that is why we have a message board, to discuss "what if." We are NOT the ruling elite of religious order deciding which works are canon and which are to be rejected.

Please do not issue these sorts of sweeping general statements as fact please.

exodus · December 12 2008, 10:17 PM

Union Elf wrote:

exodus wrote:

...and fans consider canon paramount.

Not all of us do, many of us are open minded enough to accept alternatives and discuss "what if" that is why we have a message board, to discuss "what if." We are NOT the ruling elite of religious order deciding which works are canon and which are to be rejected.

Please do not issue these sorts of sweeping general statements as fact please.

What holds true on a message board isn't what holds true in real world business. Speculate all you wish here, that's what its for but being open minded about science fiction it doesn't change the fact of legal license.

However, if one comment taken out of context is your only complaint, then I must not be doing to bad.

Johnhead99 · December 12 2008, 10:19 PM

Union Elf wrote:

exodus wrote:

...and fans consider canon paramount.

Not all of us do, many of us are open minded enough to accept alternatives and discuss "what if" that is why we have a message board, to discuss "what if." We are NOT the ruling elite of religious order deciding which works are canon and which are to be rejected.

Please do not issue these sorts of sweeping general statements as fact please.

Agreed. If I only cared about Canon, I wouldn't read the novels. And, for me, the novels are the best.

The String Theory explanation is plausable; but I never really understood what the deal with FURY was in the first place. I guess I need to go back and watch it; but, at the time, it seemed plausable. Especially with her mental abilities in all. Can someone elaborate on the issues of the episode so when I watch it again tonight and I can look for those?

exodus · December 12 2008, 10:31 PM

Johnhead99 wrote:

Union Elf wrote:

exodus wrote:

...and fans consider canon paramount.

Not all of us do, many of us are open minded enough to accept alternatives and discuss "what if" that is why we have a message board, to discuss "what if." We are NOT the ruling elite of religious order deciding which works are canon and which are to be rejected.

Please do not issue these sorts of sweeping general statements as fact please.

Agreed. If I only cared about Canon, I wouldn't read the novels. And, for me, the novels are the best.

The String Theory explanation is plausable; but I never really understood what the deal with FURY was in the first place. I guess I need to go back and watch it; but, at the time, it seemed plausable. Especially with her mental abilities in all. Can someone elaborate on the issues of the episode so when I watch it again tonight and I can look for those?

Rewatch "Coldfire" first, it explains much of why Kes became the way she did. Also if you know the X-Men, "Coldfire" = "The Phoenix Saga" while "Fury" = "The Dark Phoenix Saga".

It's basically a story about how absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Lynx · December 12 2008, 10:33 PM

Union Elf wrote:

exodus wrote:

...and fans consider canon paramount.

Not all of us do, many of us are open minded enough to accept alternatives and discuss "what if" that is why we have a message board, to discuss "what if." We are NOT the ruling elite of religious order deciding which works are canon and which are to be rejected.

Please do not issue these sorts of sweeping general statements as fact please.

In this I totally agree.

When it comes to the "Fury" issue, there are many fans, not only ardent Kes fans, who find that episode horrible for many reasons. Many fans consider the events in "Fury" totally out of character and see it as nothing but unnecessary character destruction.

Therefore it's actually natural to discuss other options who may be more acceptable for the fans who ind "Fury" as nothing but an insulting piece of crap.

We must also face the facts that it will never be any Voyager episode or movie and that those who ruined the character are not involved with Star Trek anymore. So if a writer presents something which might give an acceptable solution to the "Fury" problem, something that the fans of the character Kes appreciate, why must it had to be waved away as unacceptable because of not being "canon"?

exodus · December 12 2008, 10:50 PM

Lynx wrote:

Therefore it's actually natural to discuss other options who may be more acceptable for the fans who ind "Fury" as nothing but an insulting piece of crap.

I think we all should be allowed to talk about the ep. whether some find it acceptable or not. The board is for everyone to express their opinions, correct?

Lynx · December 12 2008, 11:19 PM

exodus wrote:

Lynx wrote:

Therefore it's actually natural to discuss other options who may be more acceptable for the fans who ind "Fury" as nothing but an insulting piece of crap.

I think we all should be allowed to talk about the ep. whether some find it acceptable or not. The board is for everyone to express their opinions, correct?

I get the impression that we are doing just that.

Akiraprise · December 13 2008, 06:19 AM

I actually do like the episode "Fury." Even as a fan of Kes. It's a fun episode, action packed, and it features the Vidiians again who are one of my favorite villains. For my own personal canon, if you will, I accept the String Theory books explanation for the Kes we saw in "Fury." Just because I don't see the friendly Kes we last saw in "The Gift" twisting so far evil as to want to kill all of the friends she made on Voyager. Not just kill them but actually torture the crew by having the Vidiians remove their vital organs.

December 12 2008, 08:04 AM	#1
USS Fardell Captain Location: Australia	"Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes? Is the 'Fury' Kes a Mirror Kes? Is this likely? Does this solve the personality issues? Does this bring up any other issues? (IE she doesn't realise that Voyager is mirror to the one that she is familiar with?) __________________ http://fardell24.livejournal.com

December 12 2008, 08:05 AM	#2
davidant32 Commodore	Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes? that would be nice but she clearly has memories of being a good Kes. remember the hologram she made for herself at the end? __________________ Space, time, and thought are not the separate things they appear to be.

December 12 2008, 04:02 PM	#3
RoJoHen Awesome Location: Wherever life takes me	Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes? No, she is menopausal Kes. Ocampan menopause is rough. __________________ I am the Quintessential Admiral. Get ready to grow your EQUINOX BEARD!

December 12 2008, 09:47 PM	#6
Lynx Rear Admiral Location: Lynx Empire	Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes? ^^ Doesn't matter. The Voyager story continues in the books and the explanations in the "String Theory" books are plausible. And acceptable for many fans. __________________ Who'd let that cat in here? Visit the Kes Website at the new location: http://lynx677.byethost12.com

December 13 2008, 06:19 AM	#15
Akiraprise Moderator	Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes? I actually do like the episode "Fury." Even as a fan of Kes. It's a fun episode, action packed, and it features the Vidiians again who are one of my favorite villains. For my own personal canon, if you will, I accept the String Theory books explanation for the Kes we saw in "Fury." Just because I don't see the friendly Kes we last saw in "The Gift" twisting so far evil as to want to kill all of the friends she made on Voyager. Not just kill them but actually torture the crew by having the Vidiians remove their vital organs. __________________ MCCOY: You know, back home we got a saying, "If you're gonna ride in the Kentucky Derby, you don't leave your prize stallion in the stable." SPOCK: A curious metaphor, Doctor, as a stallion must first be broken before it can reach its potential. MCCOY: Green-blooded hobgoblin.

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