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Old December 12 2008, 08:04 AM   #1
USS Fardell
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"Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

Is the 'Fury' Kes a Mirror Kes?

Is this likely?

Does this solve the personality issues?

Does this bring up any other issues? (IE she doesn't realise that Voyager is mirror to the one that she is familiar with?)
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Old December 12 2008, 08:05 AM   #2
davidant32
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

that would be nice but she clearly has memories of being a good Kes.

remember the hologram she made for herself at the end?
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Old December 12 2008, 04:02 PM   #3
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

No, she is menopausal Kes.

Ocampan menopause is rough.
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Old December 12 2008, 08:57 PM   #4
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

USS Fardell wrote: View Post
Is the 'Fury' Kes a Mirror Kes?

Is this likely?

Does this solve the personality issues?

Does this bring up any other issues? (IE she doesn't realise that Voyager is mirror to the one that she is familiar with?)
The "String Theory" books have come up with a plausible explanation what the pathetic wreck we saw in "Fury" really was. It was not the real Kes.
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Old December 12 2008, 09:39 PM   #5
exodus
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

Lynx wrote: View Post
USS Fardell wrote: View Post
Is the 'Fury' Kes a Mirror Kes?

Is this likely?

Does this solve the personality issues?

Does this bring up any other issues? (IE she doesn't realise that Voyager is mirror to the one that she is familiar with?)
The "String Theory" books have come up with a plausible explanation what the pathetic wreck we saw in "Fury" really was. It was not the real Kes.
Books aren't canon.
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Old December 12 2008, 09:47 PM   #6
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

^^
Doesn't matter. The Voyager story continues in the books and the explanations in the "String Theory" books are plausible.

And acceptable for many fans.
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Old December 12 2008, 10:03 PM   #7
exodus
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

Lynx wrote: View Post
^^
Doesn't matter. The Voyager story continues in the books and the explanations in the "String Theory" books are plausible.

And acceptable for many fans.
Fans don't run the franchese and fans consider canon paramount.

We hold up canon on the board all the time due to it. If they didn't, so many wouldn't be questioning the J.J.Abrams film.

Paramount are the only ones who can give the ok on what is canon and what is not because they own the licence. The fans have no say in that matter because they can't overrule what is legal and binding.
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Old December 12 2008, 10:09 PM   #8
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

exodus wrote: View Post
...and fans consider canon paramount.
Not all of us do, many of us are open minded enough to accept alternatives and discuss "what if" that is why we have a message board, to discuss "what if." We are NOT the ruling elite of religious order deciding which works are canon and which are to be rejected.

Please do not issue these sorts of sweeping general statements as fact please.
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Old December 12 2008, 10:17 PM   #9
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

Union Elf wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
...and fans consider canon paramount.
Not all of us do, many of us are open minded enough to accept alternatives and discuss "what if" that is why we have a message board, to discuss "what if." We are NOT the ruling elite of religious order deciding which works are canon and which are to be rejected.

Please do not issue these sorts of sweeping general statements as fact please.


What holds true on a message board isn't what holds true in real world business. Speculate all you wish here, that's what its for but being open minded about science fiction it doesn't change the fact of legal license.

However, if one comment taken out of context is your only complaint, then I must not be doing to bad.
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Old December 12 2008, 10:19 PM   #10
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

Union Elf wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
...and fans consider canon paramount.
Not all of us do, many of us are open minded enough to accept alternatives and discuss "what if" that is why we have a message board, to discuss "what if." We are NOT the ruling elite of religious order deciding which works are canon and which are to be rejected.

Please do not issue these sorts of sweeping general statements as fact please.

Agreed. If I only cared about Canon, I wouldn't read the novels. And, for me, the novels are the best.

The String Theory explanation is plausable; but I never really understood what the deal with FURY was in the first place. I guess I need to go back and watch it; but, at the time, it seemed plausable. Especially with her mental abilities in all. Can someone elaborate on the issues of the episode so when I watch it again tonight and I can look for those?
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Old December 12 2008, 10:31 PM   #11
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

Johnhead99 wrote: View Post
Union Elf wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
...and fans consider canon paramount.
Not all of us do, many of us are open minded enough to accept alternatives and discuss "what if" that is why we have a message board, to discuss "what if." We are NOT the ruling elite of religious order deciding which works are canon and which are to be rejected.

Please do not issue these sorts of sweeping general statements as fact please.

Agreed. If I only cared about Canon, I wouldn't read the novels. And, for me, the novels are the best.

The String Theory explanation is plausable; but I never really understood what the deal with FURY was in the first place. I guess I need to go back and watch it; but, at the time, it seemed plausable. Especially with her mental abilities in all. Can someone elaborate on the issues of the episode so when I watch it again tonight and I can look for those?
Rewatch "Coldfire" first, it explains much of why Kes became the way she did. Also if you know the X-Men, "Coldfire" = "The Phoenix Saga" while "Fury" = "The Dark Phoenix Saga".

It's basically a story about how absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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Old December 12 2008, 10:33 PM   #12
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

Union Elf wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
...and fans consider canon paramount.
Not all of us do, many of us are open minded enough to accept alternatives and discuss "what if" that is why we have a message board, to discuss "what if." We are NOT the ruling elite of religious order deciding which works are canon and which are to be rejected.

Please do not issue these sorts of sweeping general statements as fact please.
In this I totally agree.

When it comes to the "Fury" issue, there are many fans, not only ardent Kes fans, who find that episode horrible for many reasons. Many fans consider the events in "Fury" totally out of character and see it as nothing but unnecessary character destruction.

Therefore it's actually natural to discuss other options who may be more acceptable for the fans who ind "Fury" as nothing but an insulting piece of crap.

We must also face the facts that it will never be any Voyager episode or movie and that those who ruined the character are not involved with Star Trek anymore. So if a writer presents something which might give an acceptable solution to the "Fury" problem, something that the fans of the character Kes appreciate, why must it had to be waved away as unacceptable because of not being "canon"?
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Old December 12 2008, 10:50 PM   #13
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

Lynx wrote: View Post

Therefore it's actually natural to discuss other options who may be more acceptable for the fans who ind "Fury" as nothing but an insulting piece of crap.
I think we all should be allowed to talk about the ep. whether some find it acceptable or not. The board is for everyone to express their opinions, correct?
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Old December 12 2008, 11:19 PM   #14
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

exodus wrote: View Post
Lynx wrote: View Post

Therefore it's actually natural to discuss other options who may be more acceptable for the fans who ind "Fury" as nothing but an insulting piece of crap.
I think we all should be allowed to talk about the ep. whether some find it acceptable or not. The board is for everyone to express their opinions, correct?
I get the impression that we are doing just that.
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Old December 13 2008, 06:19 AM   #15
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Re: "Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

I actually do like the episode "Fury." Even as a fan of Kes. It's a fun episode, action packed, and it features the Vidiians again who are one of my favorite villains. For my own personal canon, if you will, I accept the String Theory books explanation for the Kes we saw in "Fury." Just because I don't see the friendly Kes we last saw in "The Gift" twisting so far evil as to want to kill all of the friends she made on Voyager. Not just kill them but actually torture the crew by having the Vidiians remove their vital organs.
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