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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Grade Lost Souls
Excellent 130 72.22%
Above Average 35 19.44%
Average 12 6.67%
Below Average 1 0.56%
Poor 2 1.11%
Voters: 180. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 10 2008, 02:56 AM   #301
Dayton Ward
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Blizzard wrote: View Post
OK, OK. While the Breen and Eav'oq jokes are cute and funny, let's try to keep this one on topic and about Destiny: Lost Souls. I'm sure the topic can still be discussed and manage to slip in some of those.

Let's just avoid spamming the thread with them.

Thanks.
Can we spend three days talking about who makes the best Jimmy Olsen instead?
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Old December 10 2008, 03:44 AM   #302
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
I believe more and more of Curzon is sort of seeping into her personality and she's become someone who's going to be an unconventional captain and will ignore Starfleet regs and protocol when she feels someone just needs an old-fashioned smack in the head...
Ahhh!!! Maybe thats it!! You're on to something I think... she's been quoting him lately in DS9... and that may explain her decision in GoN to have that formal command thing, the one that Bowers wanted as a trade off...

Interesting...
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Old December 10 2008, 11:17 AM   #303
Baerbel Haddrell
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Marie1 wrote: View Post
She may know about war from the memories of the other hosts- that, to me, doesn't necessarily make her a better captain- I don't think her other hosts were, and she wasn't slated to be joined. One of her hosts was a serial killer for that matter... and I'd personally resent a simple "get over it" if I got 3 people killed. Kedair is right, Dax has a terrible bedside manner. May... maybe I wouldn't have minded what was said if it was a friend of Kedairs... that wouldn't be so bad. I doubt this is over...

She may have won, but thats not something she's going to be able to pull off very often, Captain or no... or I venture to say its not ideal...

I am also sure that this isn`t over. It was just a start, giving Kedair a chance to look at what happened from a different perspective and giving her a crutch so that she could function during the crisis.

Now that the threat is over, I agree that Kedair needs proper treatment. Dealing with a trauma takes a lot of time and she will need support.
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Old December 10 2008, 09:41 PM   #304
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Stephen! wrote: View Post
Marie1 wrote: View Post
Maybe in the future someone catches Section 31 so they can't attempt genocide anymore...
They are finally brought to justice by the 25th century.

http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Section_31#25th_Century

The existence and activities of Section 31 were exposed to the general public by the early 25th century and its agents brought to justice for their crimes. The public release of Section 31's files and records ended over 300 years of the bureau's illegal and unsanctioned black-ops and infiltration programs. (The Good That Men Do)
I hope we actually get to see this in a future novel.

This, and the public trial, treason conviction, and possible execution of every single member of Section 31 that the Federation can get its hands on.

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
If you look at it from the POV of an attacked race, it's humanity's fault for the survivors not letting themselves die. They went back and sought out the Caeliar's help to survive, had they just allowed themselves to die or killed themselves, no Borg.
There are a lot of races that will have this viewpoint, I feel. The Klingons, for example. A Klingon would never be so weak as to allow themselves to even *be* taken prisoner, let alone used in that way.

Stephen! wrote: View Post
ronny wrote: View Post
The Borg have been vanquished.
Well, unless their mirror universe counterparts ever happen to crossover to this universe
AAAA! Hell no! The whole fucking POINT of this massive series was to totally, irrevocably and permanently END the Borg. If the MU Borg pop up, that will be a galaxy-sized middle finger to the fans.

I don't know what will ultimately happen to the MU Borg. I doubt that we will ever find out. Perhaps "The Worst Of Both Worlds" will prove to be definitive? We can only hope.
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Old December 10 2008, 10:39 PM   #305
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
Stephen! wrote: View Post
Marie1 wrote: View Post
Maybe in the future someone catches Section 31 so they can't attempt genocide anymore...
They are finally brought to justice by the 25th century.

http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Section_31#25th_Century

The existence and activities of Section 31 were exposed to the general public by the early 25th century and its agents brought to justice for their crimes. The public release of Section 31's files and records ended over 300 years of the bureau's illegal and unsanctioned black-ops and infiltration programs. (The Good That Men Do)
I hope we actually get to see this in a future novel.

This, and the public trial, treason conviction, and possible execution of every single member of Section 31 that the Federation can get its hands on.
I think it's safe to say that the United Federation of Planets does not engage in capital punishment anymore, especially since they're not so much enemies with the Talosians anymore.

The other thing to keep in mind is that exactly what constitutes membership in Section 31 is a bit, well, murky. I don't think they keep ledgers or tell people what the secret handshake is or hand out membership cards. Julian Bashir, for instance, is apparently considered to be a member of Section 31 by them, and has even undertaken missions upon being assigned one from Thirty-One; does that make him a member who deserves to be arrested and tried for treason? On the other hand, he's also a part of the Kirk cabal of anti-Thirty-One officers.

Similarly, what about, say, Admiral Ross? He's apparently a member, he's undertaken operations on their behalf, he's collaborated with them. He even
But by the same token, to hear him talk about it in his head, he thought of himself as trying to hold them back and control them.
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Old December 11 2008, 12:05 AM   #306
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Sci wrote: View Post

I think it's safe to say that the United Federation of Planets does not engage in capital punishment anymore
Maybe they might want to reconsider this. Wouldn't it be much too dangerous to leave any Section 31 member alive?

Julian Bashir, for instance, is apparently considered to be a member of Section 31 by them, and has even undertaken missions upon being assigned one from Thirty-One; does that make him a member who deserves to be arrested and tried for treason? On the other hand, he's also a part of the Kirk cabal of anti-Thirty-One officers.
I don't count Bashir as a member, and never did. He was recruited against his will, and obviously did not agree with their ultimate goals. And as you say, he was part of the Kirk Cabal working against them. That leaves Bashir off the hook, as far as I'm concerned.

Similarly, what about, say, Admiral Ross? He's apparently a member, he's undertaken operations on their behalf, he's collaborated with them. He even
But by the same token, to hear him talk about it in his head, he thought of himself as trying to hold them back and control them.
I'm sure he did. But that doesn't absolve him of blame. Unlike Bashir, I consider Ross a full member of Section 31 who should be held accountable for their crimes. It's just a pity that Sloan is already dead and unable to face a public trial and punishment.
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Old December 11 2008, 12:17 AM   #307
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post

I think it's safe to say that the United Federation of Planets does not engage in capital punishment anymore
Maybe they might want to reconsider this. Wouldn't it be much too dangerous to leave any Section 31 member alive?
That's a dangerous road to tread down. I mean, seriously, if we're going to violate one of the Federation's basic principles -- the right of sentient entities to live -- because we think that the ends of serving justice and protecting the Federation justify the means (execution) -- then, really, how are we any different from Section 31?
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Old December 11 2008, 12:25 AM   #308
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Sci wrote: View Post
Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post

I think it's safe to say that the United Federation of Planets does not engage in capital punishment anymore
Maybe they might want to reconsider this. Wouldn't it be much too dangerous to leave any Section 31 member alive?
That's a dangerous road to tread down. I mean, seriously, if we're going to violate one of the Federation's basic principles -- the right of sentient entities to live -- because we think that the ends of serving justice and protecting the Federation justify the means (execution) -- then, really, how are we any different from Section 31?
I see your point. So what would you suggest the Federation do with them?
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Old December 11 2008, 12:58 AM   #309
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
Babaganoosh wrote: View Post

Maybe they might want to reconsider this. Wouldn't it be much too dangerous to leave any Section 31 member alive?
That's a dangerous road to tread down. I mean, seriously, if we're going to violate one of the Federation's basic principles -- the right of sentient entities to live -- because we think that the ends of serving justice and protecting the Federation justify the means (execution) -- then, really, how are we any different from Section 31?
I see your point. So what would you suggest the Federation do with them?
I'd say that locking them up in a high-security prison for a term lasting however long a qualified judiciary judges to be proportional to the severity of the crimes committed by that individual sounds good to me.
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Old December 11 2008, 01:05 AM   #310
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

That's crazy talk! What kind of government would practice justice like that?
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Old December 11 2008, 02:55 AM   #311
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Sci wrote: View Post
Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post

That's a dangerous road to tread down. I mean, seriously, if we're going to violate one of the Federation's basic principles -- the right of sentient entities to live -- because we think that the ends of serving justice and protecting the Federation justify the means (execution) -- then, really, how are we any different from Section 31?
I see your point. So what would you suggest the Federation do with them?
I'd say that locking them up in a high-security prison for a term lasting however long a qualified judiciary judges to be proportional to the severity of the crimes committed by that individual sounds good to me.
I'm thinking this would pretty much have to be life for some of the highest ranking members. I'm mainly talking about the people who would have actually descided to try to wipe out the entire Changeling race, and murder the Federation President.
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Old December 11 2008, 02:57 AM   #312
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Stephen! wrote: View Post
Marie1 wrote: View Post
Maybe in the future someone catches Section 31 so they can't attempt genocide anymore...
They are finally brought to justice by the 25th century.

http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Section_31#25th_Century

The existence and activities of Section 31 were exposed to the general public by the early 25th century and its agents brought to justice for their crimes. The public release of Section 31's files and records ended over 300 years of the bureau's illegal and unsanctioned black-ops and infiltration programs. (The Good That Men Do)
That was strange and unexpected... I'd heard a bit about what TGTMD was about... but this I didn't see coming... (I read up just now from Memory Alpha or something). I love that Jake has a cat named Odo!



Babaganoosh wrote: View Post
Stephen! wrote: View Post
ronny wrote: View Post
The Borg have been vanquished.
Well, unless their mirror universe counterparts ever happen to crossover to this universe
AAAA! Hell no! The whole fucking POINT of this massive series was to totally, irrevocably and permanently END the Borg. If the MU Borg pop up, that will be a galaxy-sized middle finger to the fans.

I don't know what will ultimately happen to the MU Borg. I doubt that we will ever find out. Perhaps "The Worst Of Both Worlds" will prove to be definitive? We can only hope.
Well, in theory an MU exists for every choice we make for the choice we didn't- so there are probably lots of MU borg... I don't think the fans will find it offensive- they'll have new respect and pity for the Borg, maybe be more sympathetic, try to help them, won't feel so overwhelmed... or maybe blow them up, who knows... I wouldn't be offended- kinda hard to shut those doors completely...
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Old December 11 2008, 03:07 AM   #313
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Marie1 wrote: View Post
Well, in theory an MU exists for every choice we make for the choice we didn't- so there are probably lots of MU borg... I don't think the fans will find it offensive- they'll have new respect and pity for the Borg, maybe be more sympathetic, try to help them, won't feel so overwhelmed... or maybe blow them up, who knows... I wouldn't be offended- kinda hard to shut those doors completely...
It's just that...after all this attention to the final, irrevocable end of the Borg, I would hate to have them brought back again in the MU. The Borg should end there too. Although, given the general state of affairs in that universe, *their* Borg will probably be dealt with more ruthlessly than these Borg have been.
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Old December 11 2008, 03:38 AM   #314
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

^ True, but think of all the innocent people enslaved by the Borg who have died as "enemies." Its easy to forget that nice people with loved ones are also Borg- so maybe they can be dealt with less ruthlessly by the MU due to the revelations of the Destiny story...
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Old December 11 2008, 03:43 AM   #315
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Marie1 wrote: View Post
Its easy to forget that nice people with loved ones are also Borg- so maybe they can be dealt with less ruthlessly by the MU due to the revelations of the Destiny story...
I don't see the connection. Destiny dealt only with the 'real' universe, it had no MU connections whatsoever. No one in the MU is, or could be, aware of anything that happened in Destiny. If there is any relationship at all between the two universes' Borg, we are not aware of it yet.

My concern is simply regarding the Borg as fictional characters (not how actual characters would deal with them). David Mack went to a lot of trouble to write this - to finally, unambiguously, END the Borg. If the MU Borg suddenly show up later on, doesn't that cheapen Destiny just a little bit?
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