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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Grade Lost Souls
Excellent 130 72.22%
Above Average 35 19.44%
Average 12 6.67%
Below Average 1 0.56%
Poor 2 1.11%
Voters: 180. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 8 2008, 04:12 PM   #286
nx1701g
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Braxton wrote: View Post
The Borg are gone so now we turn to new threats or old threats? The Tholians seem to be pretty pissed at what the Federation managed to pull off so maybe they'll be featured more prominently going forward? We don't really know much about them right?
I wouldn't mind the Tholians getting a little more page time. Maybe now we can have the Breen book that was rumored?
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Old December 8 2008, 08:13 PM   #287
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

I'm thinking at this point if we learn anything more about the Tholians it will probably be in the Vanguard books. They did introduce the whole backstory with them and the Sheadi there after all.
On the other hand, I would love to see more of the Breen. Especially if we can finally find out what they look like under those suits.
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Old December 9 2008, 06:18 PM   #288
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

^ Exactly. The Breen are an untapped resource. Could be interesting.
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Old December 9 2008, 07:05 PM   #289
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Well, if Margaret decides to do a Breen novel, I hope she has the good sense not to assign it to me, because I'd be unable to resist giving it punny chapter titles. "It's Not Easy Being Breen," "In Memory Yet Breen," "Breen Over Brawn," "Has-Breen"... we've done the gamut of Breen puns in enough threads already that I shouldn't have to list them here yet again, and yet I just can't help myself.
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Old December 9 2008, 07:18 PM   #290
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Christopher wrote: View Post
... and yet I just can't help myself.
Sho'qing!
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Old December 9 2008, 08:19 PM   #291
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Christopher wrote: View Post
... we've done the gamut of Breen puns in enough threads already that I shouldn't have to list them here yet again, and yet I just can't help myself.
Breen there, done that.
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Old December 9 2008, 08:43 PM   #292
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

^^Now you've done it. Now I want to do a Breen/Borg crossover called Breen There, Drone That.
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Old December 9 2008, 10:16 PM   #293
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, if Margaret decides to do a Breen novel, I hope she has the good sense not to assign it to me, because I'd be unable to resist giving it punny chapter titles. "It's Not Easy Being Breen," "In Memory Yet Breen," "Breen Over Brawn," "Has-Breen"... we've done the gamut of Breen puns in enough threads already that I shouldn't have to list them here yet again, and yet I just can't help myself.
Maybe she should give that task to David BrEEn.

MichaelS wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
... and yet I just can't help myself.
Sho'qing!
Hey! Eav'oq jokes are MY schtick!
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Old December 9 2008, 10:32 PM   #294
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

OK, OK. While the Breen and Eav'oq jokes are cute and funny, let's try to keep this one on topic and about Destiny: Lost Souls. I'm sure the topic can still be discussed and manage to slip in some of those.

Let's just avoid spamming the thread with them.

Thanks.
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Old December 10 2008, 12:00 AM   #295
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

This is my review of Destiny: Lost Souls


The text is very long and full of spoilers.


After having read the second book of the Destiny trilogy I was very much looking forward to the next and last book. I could see that a lot of my speculations were right but I had no idea when I started reading this book how much further the story would go and how much richer this trilogy would become. In spite of a few criticisms I had this is an amazing series that opens the door to a lot of potential.

I want to get into more detail after I had a closer look at what happened in “Lost Souls”. There are four main storylines in this book:


AVENTINE (Captain Ezri Dax)

Especially in this book I could see that Ezri Dax matured in ways I find amazing and I welcome this very much. Her confidence has grown even more and it is great to see how she is finding her full potential. I am very much looking forward to read more about this remarkable captain and her crew.

This book showed a lot of the battles she and her crew fought against the Borg, their bravery, their sacrifices, the highs but also the lows. I think it was a good idea to include the topic friendly fire in this book, too. I very much felt for Kedair and when I read that she went back to make up for her mistake was sure she would indeed sacrifice herself. I was pleasantly surprised that David Mack didn`t follow that path and used that cliché. I prefer it when people survive and have to face the consequences of their actions. Dax speech put me off first because she sounded overly cruel to me but then I thought about it and realized that Dax was right with everything she said and Kedair needed the push that speech gave her. The expression “cruel to be kind” came to my mind. I think this scene showed that Captain Dax is still a skilled counsellor.


TITAN (Captain William Riker)

Inyx approached Deanna the way Dr. Ree should have by calmly discussing her options with him. I am glad that David Mack chose the best possible outcome, by not only healing Deanna but also her baby. That Inyx also rejuvenated a lot of her inner organs is a nice bonus.

I don`t know if editors and authors consider this matter closed now but I have the gut feeling that this is very likely the case. I am very happy with this outcome but nevertheless, I can`t forget that at the very least under certain circumstances a CMO can order a woman to have an abortion. I know, it was not an illegal order but I still think, it should be illegal. I feel very strongly about this but I realized during discussions that I am obviously in a minority.

At the very least, I hope that future books will address Dr. Ree`s experiences and his efforts to learn from them. I think the handled Deanna`s case very badly but he is a good person and even in his clumsy, unthinking way he tried to do his best for his patient.

I wonder what other surprises Inyx left behind. I wonder, is Deanna`s baby really completely normal?

Seeing Deanna and Riker back together and happy was nice.



ENTERPRISE (Captain Jean-Luc Picard)

I found the character arc in this book very interesting and moving. He was able to be the voice of reason that Ezri Dax listened to but I could also see from early on that Picard was getting closer to reaching his breaking point. The scene when he looked at his burned out ready room (“Time is the fire in which we burn”), it touched me a lot.

I think the comparison some people made, that the Borg are Picard`s Kryptonite, fits very well. I could see that the threat of the Borg literally sucked the strength out of Picard. Each time Picard was worried that Dax plan to install Captain Hernandez as a new Borg Queen might make matters worse, I wondered how that would be possible. What had the Federation, what had all the other civilizations of that region to lose? Annihilation was just hours away.

I think Worf failed his captain here. His job is not just honouring his captain by supporting him but also to be a voice of reason, someone who challenges the captain when it is needed. He should have pointed out much stronger that he disagrees with him and that he supports Dax plan. And when Picard was ordering the construction of the thalaron weapon, a metagenic superweapon, Worf disagreed even more but, this time, did not speak up at all. Instead it was Geordi who refused to obey this not only highly dangerous but also illegal order. I loved that scene! It is probably the best Geordi scene I have ever read or seen. It showed Geordi`s deep respect, his friendship with his captain but also his determination to do what is right and to accept the consequences. It was extremely powerful and touching.

Everybody has his or her breaking point. Picard`s threshold is very high. He has shown in the past how strong, how experienced, how cunning he is. At the same time, Picard had to handle serious personal losses and especially one trauma also most Starfleet officers can barely imagine. He emerged healed each time but the mental scars will never disappear. All Picard can do is being aware of them and be on his guard. But this time, it became too much and I can`t blame him for being so vulnerable when he was about to lose everything and having failed to keep his guard against his weakness up.

It shows that Picard is a human being with strengths and weaknesses. He is not a Borg. He is also not an action hero with underdeveloped feelings. It is his humanity that makes Picard interesting, likeable and worthy of respect, his battle to also deal with weaknesses, to learn from them and to grow. That makes a good captain but this book also shows what a good captain also needs: support. It showed the strong bond Picard has with his wife and with officers like Geordi. Especially now that the Kryptonite no longer exists I think what happened will make him stronger, it will forge a stronger bond with his crew and I think his experiences will help to be a good father to his son when he is born. I also think that Worf learned important lessons that will enable him to be a better first officer in future and hopefully, one day, a captain of his own ship.

The use of the thalaron weapon wouldn`t have been an effective weapon against the Borg. I think no weapon would have worked, even if there would have been an even deadlier one. Yes, maybe (and that is a very big maybe) it could have been used once and it could have destroyed hundreds, maybe more, Borg ships. But it would not have saved humanity or anybody else. It would also be a suicide weapon. It would only make the Borg more determined to get rid of this threat but Picard would no longer be alive to see it.

The Borg as described in the trilogy reminded me of a disease, a cancer that continued to grow and turned something positive into something ugly, menacing and ultimately fatal. I like the idea that the Borg needed healing instead of futile attempts at extermination very much. The way the Caeliar embraced and healed the Borg was beautifully written and the ideal way to bring the Borg story arc to a conclusion.

The way I see it, the Caeliar were the last hope humanity and all the other civilizations on the same level had against the Borg. Picard had the choice to face the end without losing himself, the person he is or give up hope. Picard definitely failed this test but fortunately his fellow officers, his friends, were there beside him and help him.

It was nice to see how Picard and Beverly were now looking forward to the future and happy. Picard, Dax and Riker – what these three captains went through together forged an even stronger friendship. I think that was very visible in this book and I enjoyed reading about it.


COLUMBIA (Captain Erika Hernandez)

After we learned about the history of Captain Hernandez captivity David Mack was now looking at what happened to the other group of survivors who left the disaster zone in a different city.

I had a gut feeling from early on that the Borg and the Caeliar are related, a gut feeling that grew stronger the more I learned. Nevertheless, I know now that I nevertheless had no idea but on the other hand, everything made so much sense to me. Nothing felt constructed, nothing felt like technobabble.

I think the origin David Mack showed here is so powerful because it didn`t happen by design. It is the result of tragic circumstances with results nobody could have predicted. What it shows, though, is how powerful the urge to survive in humans and Caeliar are. This is something both species have in common. When driven to the edge, some individuals are able to do extraordinary things in order to survive. Sedin was not responsible for her actions. She acted on instinct, as the Caeliar in the first book did who was starving on the wreck of the Columbia.

The idea of including the former Borg into the Caeliar is a wonderful idea but I hope at the same time that the Caeliar didn`t forget their strong beliefs in personal choices and freedom. I hope they gave each individual a choice, also the choice to leave and maybe even to be able to return to loved ones they left behind when they were assimilated.

From early on I wondered what would become of Hernandez. She is a very powerful individual so that she falls into the category of Wesley, Morgan Lefler and McHenry. That means these people either disappear or they die. I am glad that in this case she left instead of being killed. I hope we will meet the Caeliar including Hernandez again.


OTHERS

It was touching to read how President Bacco dealt with the crisis, how she kept looking for answers, how she finally accepted her fate and was determined to face it with dignity and when, like a miracle, the threat vanished literally within one minute before the Borg would have destroyed Earth. It showed the strength of this remarkable woman but also her sense of humour. I liked the idea of having a last meal before the end.

We learned that the Voyager was left behind in bad condition, that Chakotay was left in critical condition by the Borg attack and that many people died on board. I am looking forward to “Full Circle”, the book that will tell us what happened to these people. I was already left wondering about Seven – or Annika Hansen. It was interesting to read that only Bacco really had the courage and compassion to help her when she lost her Borg implants. The Caeliar obviously did not only dissolve the Borg parts, they also regenerated what the Borg had taken away. It will be interesting to see what knowledge Annika still has left and if she has really been turned into a child in a woman`s body. I hope not.

I wish I could be able to read the story about the SCE, who saved a world from the Borg. I also wish I could learn what else Calhoun and the Excalibur did during this war but I couldn`t find anything in this book. As much as I enjoyed this trilogy, I would have enjoyed it so much more to see Calhoun more involved. I know that the next New Frontier book “Treason” has nothing to do with Destiny but I am hoping very much that Peter David will deal with this topic in another book.

I remember discussions very well if there should be one day a time in present day Star Trek in which the Federation is destroyed and people are trying to rebuild what had been lost. As appealing that idea was to me on some level, I think having “Dark Star Trek” within the Mirror Universe stories is enough and another modern Battlestar Galactica was also not something I wanted to see regularly in Star Trek. I think the Destiny trilogy found the right middle way: The Federation still exists but a lot has been lost and needs to be rebuilt. President Bacco`s speech was very moving, very positive. I think that was necessary at that point in time. But I am confident that coming books will not show us an idealized humanity, not to mention other races, members of the Federation or not.

A crisis tends to bring out the best but also the worst in people. People tend to bond together in order to fight a common enemy. But that enemy is gone now and a lot of people are left who have lost loved ones, who have in many cases also lost their world, who are desperate, bitter and angry. They can`t even hit back at the enemy. Others will see new opportunities. I am sure, there will be power games and power shifts.

The Klingons are badly weakened but I don`t think the Romulans are and certainly not the Danteri and Thallion Empire.

I am sure, the present day Star Trek books will be very interesting.
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Old December 10 2008, 12:13 AM   #296
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Baerbel Haddrell wrote: View Post


AVENTINE (Captain Ezri Dax)
I very much felt for Kedair and when I read that she went back to make up for her mistake was sure she would indeed sacrifice herself. I was pleasantly surprised that David Mack didn`t follow that path and used that cliché. I prefer it when people survive and have to face the consequences of their actions. Dax speech put me off first because she sounded overly cruel to me but then I thought about it and realized that Dax was right with everything she said and Kedair needed the push that speech gave her. The expression “cruel to be kind” came to my mind. I think this scene showed that Captain Dax is still a skilled counsellor.
I think DM kept with Ezri's character, how she was portrayed in the series, but I thought she was out of line and handled the situation poorly. I can see her doing it- thinking back to the fight between her and Garak, but I don't agree with it. I think Kedair has probably given more orders that resulted in death than Ezri, and just needed time to get over the shock. I mean, other than the FF, she had her eye and arm torn off... having the Captain- who wasn't even in contact at the time with the crew and had barely any idea what *truly* went on march in there and just tell her to get over it was... jerkish, IMO... I would've decked her. It may have worked in theory... maybe... but Ezri bugs me...
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Old December 10 2008, 12:20 AM   #297
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Ezri spoke from experience. Being a joined Trill she knows how ugly war can be very well indeed. I am sure, Ezri Dax had a very good idea of what happened on that Borg ship.

In that situation, what Kedair first of all needed was getting a different perspective. I am sure Ezri knew very well what trauma she experienced. Leaving her alone would not have helped her, not to mention that Ezri needed her. I think the book showed that Ezri chose the right approach.
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Old December 10 2008, 12:47 AM   #298
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

I know she has Dax's memories at her disposal, but I can't agree with what she said and how she acted to Kedair given how hot-tempered and bull-headed she was, in dealing with the Borg, with Picard etc thoughout the trilogy. I mean, I can see her doing it without a question. But she lacks a deference to others who are also professionals. But even if in some cases she was right, and it was a desperate situation, she just had this... I'm going here, doing this my way, I don't care attitude- which may have caused a lot of problems. What if she'd kept ignoring Picard's hails? Yes, their both Captains, but hers was because the other officers died, and Picard has seniority.

She may know about war from the memories of the other hosts- that, to me, doesn't necessarily make her a better captain- I don't think her other hosts were, and she wasn't slated to be joined. One of her hosts was a serial killer for that matter... and I'd personally resent a simple "get over it" if I got 3 people killed. Kedair is right, Dax has a terrible bedside manner. May... maybe I wouldn't have minded what was said if it was a friend of Kedairs... that wouldn't be so bad. I doubt this is over...

She may have won, but thats not something she's going to be able to pull off very often, Captain or no... or I venture to say its not ideal...
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Old December 10 2008, 01:12 AM   #299
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

IMO, I think that we're seeing an Ezri Dax who has continued to grow and evolve from what she was on DS9. I believe more and more of Curzon is sort of seeping into her personality and she's become someone who's going to be an unconventional captain and will ignore Starfleet regs and protocol when she feels someone just needs an old-fashioned smack in the head...
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Old December 10 2008, 01:56 AM   #300
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Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

I just want to point out that at the moment, there are a dozen Destiny-related threads on the front page of this forum (at least with my settings), including five adjacent ones with new posts. Suddenly I'm hearing Gene Wilder from Young Frankenstein: "Destiny! Destiny! No escaping, that's for me!"
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