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View Poll Results: Could "The Dark Knight" Win Best Picture?
Yes 25 51.02%
No 24 48.98%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 7 2008, 04:51 PM   #16
JacksonArcher
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Re: The Dark Knight: Oscar Bound?

Bad Bishop wrote: View Post
T'Baio wrote: View Post
If Fincher won a Best Directing Oscar, my nuts would explode.

I haven't seen The Curious Case of Benjamin Button yet, it's my Christmas Theater Experience (TM) this year, but I'll assume it's great...since pretty much everything Fincher has ever done is great.

And while I won't say he deserves it more than anyone else for individual films, 'cause like I said, I haven't seen his contender this year, in the pantheon of "career Oscars," he deserves it far more than Nolan or pretty much anyone else does at this point...except maybe Mann or DePalma.
Brian De Palma is a fine director who needs a comeback film.
Yes he does. I still love The Untouchables. Wasn't he set to make a prequel or a sequel at one point?
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Old December 7 2008, 04:58 PM   #17
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Re: The Dark Knight: Oscar Bound?

Of course it could win an Oscar for Best Picture. It made potloads of money, it's politically correct (crazy terrorist for villain and ruthless martyr for hero,) and the Academy is infamous for lapses in taste and common sense.

And given the popularity of the wacky auteur theory, Nolan is thereby a possible.

And Ledger would even be a plausible choice for Best Supporting Actor, except he's actually the star of the movie. But such piddling details never bothered the Academy before.
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Old December 7 2008, 05:01 PM   #18
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Re: The Dark Knight: Oscar Bound?

stj wrote: View Post
Of course it could win an Oscar for Best Picture. It made potloads of money, it's politically correct (crazy terrorist for villain and ruthless martyr for hero,) and the Academy is infamous for lapses in taste and common sense.
That's awfully kind of you.

And given the popularity of the wacky auteur theory, Nolan is thereby a possible.
Again with the kindness.

And Ledger would even be a plausible choice for Best Supporting Actor, except he's actually the star of the movie. But such piddling details never bothered the Academy before.
I think he has, what...? 30-45 minutes of screentime? If that. That makes him a supporting character. Much like Anthony Hopkins in The Silence of the Lambs. Like Tony, he just stole the show.
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Old December 7 2008, 05:20 PM   #19
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Re: The Dark Knight: Oscar Bound?

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I dunno. I mean Fincher has Se7en and Fight Club, two of the greatest films ever in my opinion, but Christopher Nolan has Memento, Insomnia, The Prestige, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight...five of my favorite films of all time, so I'm a bit biased.

I definitely think Fincher is more than deserving for a Best Director Oscar (I'll also agree Michael Mann is overdo, much like Martin Scorsese was) but I'm a huge fan of Nolan so naturally I'm going to lean in his direction (ha, no pun intended).

I forgot to mention Zodiac! What a truly terrific film. Roger Ebert calls it his best, but I'm still stuck between choosing Se7en and Fight Club on most days (with a slight edge going to Se7en most of the time).
Se7en, The Game, Fight Club, Panic Room, Zodiac. All great films. Even Alien 3, if you look past the studio interference, you can see Fincher's brilliance. Then on top of that, he's done some of the best commercials and music videos of all time. "The Smoking Fetus" commercial for the American Cancer Society was brilliant.

I have to say, though it is tough, Se7en is his best film.
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Old December 7 2008, 05:42 PM   #20
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Re: The Dark Knight: Oscar Bound?

JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
I think he has, what...? 30-45 minutes of screentime? If that. That makes him a supporting character. Much like Anthony Hopkins in The Silence of the Lambs. Like Tony, he just stole the show.
I think of Hopkins as the male lead of Silence of the Lambs. It certainly wasn't Anthony Head or even Scott Glenn. As for Ledger in Dark Knight (note to self, Dark Knight, not Dark Knight Returns,) for how many of those minutes is he the center of the scene? Especially scenes without the official star? The number of minutes is a good starting point but Ledger was in a starring role, just as Hopkins was in Silence. Or Michael Keaton in Beetlejuice, even though he had maybe nineteen minutes on screen time. Does anybody else even remember Alec Baldwin was in Beetlejuice?

Much of the publicity campaign pushing for Dark Knight explicitly mentions the huge amount of money the movie made. That is a new low, even for Hollywood, in esthetic criteria.

PS Almost forgot---if you mean, who is the star? Obviously you're right that it's Bale. If you don't admit the possibility of multiple leads, no matter how uncommon, then the question admits of no debate. But this merely seems unduly official, misleading conventional wisdom, to me.
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Old December 7 2008, 05:59 PM   #21
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Re: The Dark Knight: Oscar Bound?

I don't see much point in hoping for or being saddened by Oscar results. For all the excitement, they're just a poll of people's opinions, and aside from a few truly awful examples, art, especially film, is pretty subjective. I don't think TDK is worth an Oscar, it was pretty common place superhero-action movie stuff, and disappointing compared to the hype it generated.

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If Ledger doesn't win, it's a criminal act of ignorant stupidity. His performance was one of the best of all time, of any film. He truly made the character live. You don't see Heath Ledger in that film one bit.
That's what's supposed to happen with acting, aside from some of the biggest stars who can get away with playing similar characters. I think Hopkins in TSotL, Nicholson in A Few Good Men, the leads in The Last King of Scotland gave much better performances. I admit, part of why I wasn't impressed with TDK's Joker was the writing and use of him, but for me it's hard to see the performance aside from that.
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Old December 7 2008, 06:27 PM   #22
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Re: The Dark Knight: Oscar Bound?

stj wrote: View Post
I think of Hopkins as the male lead of Silence of the Lambs. It certainly wasn't Anthony Head or even Scott Glenn.
Maybe there wasn't a male lead? The movie belonged to Jodie Foster. It is possible for a movie to not have a male lead. I guess you could call Tony Hopkins the "male lead" in The Silence of the Lambs but regardless of that, it still doesn't take away from the fact that he was a supporting character. Jodie Foster and Scott Glenn had more screentime than him.

As for Ledger in Dark Knight (note to self, Dark Knight, not Dark Knight Returns,) for how many of those minutes is he the center of the scene? Especially scenes without the official star? The number of minutes is a good starting point but Ledger was in a starring role, just as Hopkins was in Silence.
You could say the same for Aaron Eckhart as Harvey Dent. For how many minutes in the scenes that Eckhart was in was he the center of the scene? Probably many. Ledger and Eckhart were the principal villians, so of course they are going to dominate the scene when they are featured. I guess I just equate to starring role equaling screentime. That's not refuting that Ledger and Hopkins didn't steal the show in their respective movies, but that does not make them the leading characters in their films.

Or Michael Keaton in Beetlejuice, even though he had maybe nineteen minutes on screen time. Does anybody else even remember Alec Baldwin was in Beetlejuice?
Yeah, I do. I remember Winona Ryder a bit more, though.

Much of the publicity campaign pushing for Dark Knight explicitly mentions the huge amount of money the movie made. That is a new low, even for Hollywood, in esthetic criteria.
Get a hold of yourself. Movies do this all the time. Do you watch much TV? Every Monday there's a new advertisement proclaiming whichever movie got #1 at the box office and exploiting it. Movies take advantage of their monetary success all the time. This is not unheard of, or new.

PS Almost forgot---if you mean, who is the star? Obviously you're right that it's Bale. If you don't admit the possibility of multiple leads, no matter how uncommon, then the question admits of no debate. But this merely seems unduly official, misleading conventional wisdom, to me.
Well, I was going by who got the most screentime, and who he was billed first. That would be Christian Bale, followed by Michael Caine, and then Heath Ledger.

However we're arguing semantics, really.
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Old December 7 2008, 06:46 PM   #23
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Re: The Dark Knight: Oscar Bound?

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In time, when all the hysteria over TDK has died down, I hope Heath Ledger's performance in Brokeback Mountain will be hailed as his best. There is so much for an actor to do with a character like the Joker, so much opportunity to pull all the acting stops out. His performance as Ennis Del Mar was breathtaking and heartbreaking and it was all so subtle.

TDK was a good movie but not the year's best in my opinion. It'll probably get nominated, as will Ledger, who will probably win Best Supporting Actor but I can't see the Academy going for a comic book movie as Best Film. Then again, they did give 11 Oscars to Titanic so what do I know!
Brokeback is already acknowledged as his greatest performance and at least half of this posthumous Oscar buzz has to do with that role. If he wins it will be an award for his whole career, not just TDK.
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Old December 7 2008, 06:54 PM   #24
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Re: The Dark Knight: Oscar Bound?

I'll be astonished if it wins one of the big six for anything other than Best Supporting Actor, which is practically a given considering the sympathy vote. Ledger gives a credible, not incredible, performance ... but it was essentially his last film, and the Academy's not going to pass up an opportunity for maudlin generosity.
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Old December 7 2008, 07:27 PM   #25
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Re: The Dark Knight: Oscar Bound?

JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
Maybe there wasn't a male lead? The movie belonged to Jodie Foster. It is possible for a movie to not have a male lead. I guess you could call Tony Hopkins the "male lead" in The Silence of the Lambs but regardless of that, it still doesn't take away from the fact that he was a supporting character. Jodie Foster and Scott Glenn had more screentime than him.
Yes, it's possible for a movie not to have a male lead. That wasn't Silence in my opinion. Amusingly enough, the Academy agreed with me on this one---Hopkins got the Best Actor Oscar, not the Best Supporting Actor Oscar. On the other hand---

However we're arguing semantics, really.
You're right. So let's think of it as a brief off topic discussion. It's interesting in its own right. Is it more useful to go by official order or screen time? Or is it more useful to consider the importance of the role in the story or the importance of the actor in drawing an audience? The latter is more sensible in most cases but there those examples, like Silence or Beetlejuice, where it's more subjective. Which means, more confusing, not clearer.

As to box office as a selling point in Oscar campaigns---I'll defer to your experience. I do tend to avoid ads.
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Old December 7 2008, 10:17 PM   #26
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Re: The Dark Knight: Oscar Bound?

T'Baio wrote: View Post
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Because like I said, I really like my testicles.
I really like your testicles, too.

*LIP SMACK*
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Old December 8 2008, 03:34 AM   #27
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Re: The Dark Knight: Oscar Bound?

stj wrote: View Post
JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
Maybe there wasn't a male lead? The movie belonged to Jodie Foster. It is possible for a movie to not have a male lead. I guess you could call Tony Hopkins the "male lead" in The Silence of the Lambs but regardless of that, it still doesn't take away from the fact that he was a supporting character. Jodie Foster and Scott Glenn had more screentime than him.
Yes, it's possible for a movie not to have a male lead. That wasn't Silence in my opinion. Amusingly enough, the Academy agreed with me on this one---Hopkins got the Best Actor Oscar, not the Best Supporting Actor Oscar. On the other hand---

However we're arguing semantics, really.
You're right. So let's think of it as a brief off topic discussion. It's interesting in its own right. Is it more useful to go by official order or screen time? Or is it more useful to consider the importance of the role in the story or the importance of the actor in drawing an audience? The latter is more sensible in most cases but there those examples, like Silence or Beetlejuice, where it's more subjective. Which means, more confusing, not clearer.
None of this is useful considering that what qualifies as a Best Actor performance or a Best Supporting Actor performance is strictly defined by the Academy as being determined by billing. Hopkins won Best Actor because he was billed before the title. Ledger can win Best Supporting Actor because he was not billed before the title.
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Old December 8 2008, 03:41 AM   #28
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Re: The Dark Knight: Oscar Bound?

Were any actors billed before the title on The Dark Knight? Since the film doesn't have a traditional opening credits sequence, how is this determined (or does it say The Dark Knight right off the bat at the beginning of the end credits--I can't remember)?
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Old December 8 2008, 04:09 AM   #29
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Re: The Dark Knight: Oscar Bound?

The big question is what other films will contend with TDK? Last year No Country For Old Men won and alot of people attributed that to the fact that there was no really stand out film of 2007.
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Old December 8 2008, 05:40 AM   #30
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Re: The Dark Knight: Oscar Bound?

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The big question is what other films will contend with TDK? Last year No Country For Old Men won and alot of people attributed that to the fact that there was no really stand out film of 2007.
There was 'Sweeney Todd - The Demon Barber Of Fleet Street' which did not get a good release....it was not that wide of release
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