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Old December 3 2008, 10:07 PM   #61
Forbin
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

Yup! Look how much fun we had with the Yamato and the Musashi! WHHEEEE-BOOM!


(Boom, boom-boom, boom. Boom. Glub.)
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Old December 4 2008, 06:21 AM   #62
CuttingEdge100
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

Well, the shuttle bay being smaller makes sense. But the shuttle bay is probably like 4 decks high as it's about twice the rim thickness from what I remember.

A shuttle can fit in there...
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Old December 4 2008, 02:42 PM   #63
Forbin
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

The hangar deck model used in TOS was a forced-perspective miniature made intentionally oversized at the fore wall. I'm sure it was also egaggerated a bit in general size to make the ship look bigger and more impressive to TV viewers. And that they only had one little shuttlecraft model to stick in that cavern helped make it look so huge.
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Old December 4 2008, 02:57 PM   #64
wonderstoat
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

Westwords2020, you seem unnaturally obsessed with size. If you don't think it's big enough, you're probably right: It isn't.
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Old December 4 2008, 03:49 PM   #65
Cid Highwind
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

wonderstoat wrote: View Post
Westwords2020, you seem unnaturally obsessed with size. If you don't think it's big enough, you're probably right: It isn't.
Hah, that's what she said!



...Uhm...
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Old December 4 2008, 04:13 PM   #66
westwords2020
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

Only in the sense that I see the TOS Enterprise as too small. Doubling dimensions keeps the proportions and allows for future ships to still be bigger even though the upscaled Ent is about 1900 feet long. Ent D isn't so much longer as it is wider and longer in the saucer section. Also, on the series, we saw a ship with very high rooms and corridors which might help and windows were only in certain places which might allow them to be high enough for the new scale and this is visible inside and not outside to an external observer who should see little differencne in proportions; I hope.
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Old December 4 2008, 04:21 PM   #67
wonderstoat
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

um ... how do I put this?? My single entendre seemingly wasn't single enough ...
Don't worry about it ...
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Old December 4 2008, 08:07 PM   #68
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

westwords2020 wrote: View Post
Only in the sense that I see the TOS Enterprise as too small. Doubling dimensions keeps the proportions and allows for future ships to still be bigger even though the upscaled Ent is about 1900 feet long. Ent D isn't so much longer as it is wider and longer in the saucer section. Also, on the series, we saw a ship with very high rooms and corridors which might help and windows were only in certain places which might allow them to be high enough for the new scale and this is visible inside and not outside to an external observer who should see little differencne in proportions; I hope.
You keep saying it's "too small." Yet you haven't, as of today, given any RATIONALE behind that.

You think it's "too small." So convince us. Prove to us that if they were building a ship to do the job the TOS Enterprise was doing that it would need to be some specific size, and that the size it needs to be is significantly larger than the one we've been told for 40+ years.

For the record, I'm one of those who does think that the ship should be larger than the on-screen evidence (one screen-cap) and the unofficial (yet intended) original design intent.

I'm in the 1080' camp, you see. The reason for that is that, having tried to fit everything in, I came to the conclusion that the ship needed to be larger... specifically, about 1100' in length. This allowed for all the sets to work, for the bridge (conceptually) to work (albeit with a few dimensional tweaks as well), the hangar to work, the engineering set to work... everything... and to allow for relatively thick deck and wall thicknesses (critical for mechanical strength, as well as to fit with the stuff we've seen indicating wall thicknesses and so forth)

I don't believe that the 947' number is inviolable. But I do believe that you have to have a REASON... a logical, well-thought-through, arguable position.

So far, you have failed to provide anything of the sort. You're only... ONLY... talking about "well, I think it ought to be bigger 'cuz bigger is kewl" it seems.

That's NONSENSE. Plain and simple. You make it as big as it needs to be, and not one inch longer, not one ounce heavier. You don't make things bigger "just because we can." Especially if the "we can" argument is based upon SFX work, not even upon in-universe arguments.

You want to be taken seriously in your "proposal?" Then SUPPORT IT WITH AN ARGUMENT.

Why does the ship need to be the size you want it to be?
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Old December 4 2008, 09:43 PM   #69
Vance
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

The classic Enterprise is the size of a frickin' Nimitz-Class Aircraft Carrier with less than half the crew, a tenth of the secondary vessels, and its main engine assembly completely seperate from the rest of the ship. Even with all that, the ship is shown as being 'crowded' while in operation.

I'm looking over Janes' Fighting Ships right now, and seeing tiny subs with 200 crew that are literally out of contact with the world for months at a time while on patrols.

So, seriously, how is the ship too small?
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Old December 4 2008, 10:28 PM   #70
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

Well, if you discount the nacelles, which take up a sizable portion of the ship, it's nowhere near that big.
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Old December 4 2008, 10:45 PM   #71
Vance
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

ancient wrote: View Post
Well, if you discount the nacelles, which take up a sizable portion of the ship, it's nowhere near that big.
Nope, still is (or very very close to it). The Enterprise is considerably DEEPER, which makes up the extra mass. It's a pretty impressive-sized ship, really, which makes me wonder why a crew of 400 couldn't stay on her. Other than set discrepancies (which are Hollywoodisms anyway), what, exactly, is the size issue for such a crew?
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Old December 5 2008, 01:13 AM   #72
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

It's only deeper because of that long neck, which has no actual livable space in it. Some space is made up by the saucer width, but not enough.
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Old December 5 2008, 01:45 AM   #73
Vance
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

ancient wrote: View Post
It's only deeper because of that long neck, which has no actual livable space in it. Some space is made up by the saucer width, but not enough.
Even going with that, keep in mind that much of the hull of the Nimitz (below decks) is the hangar and maintenance area. And, of course, much of the aft of the ship is the nuclear reactor plants.

So, really, if the remainder of the ship can house, somewhat comfortably, 1200+ crewmen, I'm thinking the 400 of the Enterprise should be fine. As I said, the only issue would be a handful of the set-pieces, which chalk up to Hollywoodisms anyway.
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Old December 5 2008, 02:06 AM   #74
Shaw
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

ancient wrote: View Post
It's only deeper because of that long neck, which has no actual livable space in it.
Funny, I thought there was lots of extra space in the neck and I'm one of those 947' guys. Come to think of it... I really wasn't having any of the space issues most everyone said there should be, and I still have lots of open space to fill.
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Old December 5 2008, 02:50 AM   #75
MarianLH
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Re: Up sizing the movie Enterprise

westwords2020 wrote: View Post
Only in the sense that I see the TOS Enterprise as too small.

If you want to imagine it being larger, go right ahead; it's your imagination. But it works perfectly well at the official length. Even with the Hollywood-sized quarters, room has been found for all 430 crew and the frickin' bowling alley.


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