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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old November 26 2008, 09:06 PM   #91
ScatmanRescueMe
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Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

I am totally amazed at the question.........

"what are you talking about?"

You don't understand the concept that the FX actually stunk in 1989?

'All movies back then are bad compared to modern FX'

No, I too, saw TFF in theaters and the FX were a GIANT step back from TSFS, TWOK & TVH. Let alone the star Wars movies Aliens etc.
Many, many reviews commented on how horrible the FX were compared to contemporary movies (not movies 19 years in the future)

Shatner & Bennett hated the FX and said they were not what they expected or were promised by the company.

I'm not saying the quality of the FX can make a good movie worthless or a bad movie great, but by any objective standard they are BAD. VERY BAD.
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Old November 26 2008, 09:12 PM   #92
Luminus
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Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

ScatmanRescueMe wrote: View Post
I am totally amazed at the question.........

"what are you talking about?"

You don't understand the concept that the FX actually stunk in 1989?

'All movies back then are bad compared to modern FX'

No, I too, saw TFF in theaters and the FX were a GIANT step back from TSFS, TWOK & TVH. Let alone the star Wars movies Aliens etc.
Many, many reviews commented on how horrible the FX were compared to contemporary movies (not movies 19 years in the future)

Shatner & Bennett hated the FX and said they were not what they expected or were promised by the company.

I'm not saying the quality of the FX can make a good movie worthless or a bad movie great, but by any objective standard they are BAD. VERY BAD.
I thought you guys were criticizing from Today's point of view. I've been re-watching old 80's movies and they just all suck in terms of effects, that's why I started this debate. My memory of watching them for the first time was that the effects were good. Hell, that scene in the Terminator where Arnold cuts his eye out and slices up his arm was down-right unwatchable to me back then (very graphic). Now, it's a joke.

Some people just see more problems with effects than others. Hell, some people think Nemesis has bad effects. I, for one, can't understand why.
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Old November 27 2008, 03:40 AM   #93
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Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

Luminus wrote: View Post
ScatmanRescueMe wrote: View Post
I am totally amazed at the question.........

"what are you talking about?"

You don't understand the concept that the FX actually stunk in 1989?

'All movies back then are bad compared to modern FX'

No, I too, saw TFF in theaters and the FX were a GIANT step back from TSFS, TWOK & TVH. Let alone the star Wars movies Aliens etc.
Many, many reviews commented on how horrible the FX were compared to contemporary movies (not movies 19 years in the future)

Shatner & Bennett hated the FX and said they were not what they expected or were promised by the company.

I'm not saying the quality of the FX can make a good movie worthless or a bad movie great, but by any objective standard they are BAD. VERY BAD.
I thought you guys were criticizing from Today's point of view. I've been re-watching old 80's movies and they just all suck in terms of effects, that's why I started this debate. My memory of watching them for the first time was that the effects were good. Hell, that scene in the Terminator where Arnold cuts his eye out and slices up his arm was down-right unwatchable to me back then (very graphic). Now, it's a joke.

Some people just see more problems with effects than others. Hell, some people think Nemesis has bad effects. I, for one, can't understand why.
Except for some CGI of ship that Picard and Data were in while trying to escape, I thought the Nem fx were pretty good. The movie itsself was lacking, but the fx were done very well.
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Old November 27 2008, 05:39 AM   #94
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Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

Luminus wrote: View Post
Some people just see more problems with effects than others. Hell, some people think Nemesis has bad effects. I, for one, can't understand why.
Well, there's the moment when the Death Balustrade of Death is supposed to impale Shinzon, but instead it just lightly bounces around his chest, and Stewart and Hardy look around as if Mom is going to yell at them for roughhousing.
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Old November 27 2008, 07:28 AM   #95
RobertScorpio
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Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

Luminus wrote: View Post
ScatmanRescueMe wrote: View Post
I am totally amazed at the question.........

"what are you talking about?"

You don't understand the concept that the FX actually stunk in 1989?

'All movies back then are bad compared to modern FX'

No, I too, saw TFF in theaters and the FX were a GIANT step back from TSFS, TWOK & TVH. Let alone the star Wars movies Aliens etc.
Many, many reviews commented on how horrible the FX were compared to contemporary movies (not movies 19 years in the future)

Shatner & Bennett hated the FX and said they were not what they expected or were promised by the company.

I'm not saying the quality of the FX can make a good movie worthless or a bad movie great, but by any objective standard they are BAD. VERY BAD.
I thought you guys were criticizing from Today's point of view. I've been re-watching old 80's movies and they just all suck in terms of effects, that's why I started this debate. My memory of watching them for the first time was that the effects were good. Hell, that scene in the Terminator where Arnold cuts his eye out and slices up his arm was down-right unwatchable to me back then (very graphic). Now, it's a joke.

Some people just see more problems with effects than others. Hell, some people think Nemesis has bad effects. I, for one, can't understand why.
If the FX were good, then they would not have been an issue as much as they were in some of the reviews of the time...INSURRECTION and NEMESIS just look to flat with their CGI. I'll take the FX of WRATH OF KHAN/THE MOTION PICTURE, even with their flaws, over the flat CGI of the last two TNG movies...

Rob
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Old November 27 2008, 08:35 AM   #96
Anticitizen
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Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

RobertScorpio, I am very much in agreement about the CGI vs. models. I think FX believability went sharply downhill when CGI replaced the models. The word you used to describe the CGI is perfect... flat. The shots from TSFS of the Enterprise entering Spacedock with its battle damage, under scrutiny of spotlights, just looks so goddamn REAL. Because it is. They filmed a real, large model of that ship. I can never put my finger on what makes the CGI so lackluster but there's some factor that takes away from the realism.

That said, effects aside, I'll take the story and characterization from The Final Frontier over any of the TNG movies.
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Old November 27 2008, 08:37 AM   #97
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Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

Geesh! Impossible crowd. I liked the effects for Nemesis. I even like the strange-looking FX of Insurrection (not the animal).

EDIT: And the Final Frontier has NOTHING on First Contact.
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Old November 27 2008, 01:20 PM   #98
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Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

STV might not have lit the Trek movie world on fire but its a fun movie at its core, and i think the shat did well on giving the movie a very TOS feeling about it in its interaction between the cast and characters, yes the effects are not great but they do the job, and i would rather have a character filled and flawed Trek story then the Picard and Data show that we had in Nemesis when all our fave other character took backseats and my as well have been cardboard cut outs in the back ground.

Not that Nemesis is not a watchable movie, and to be honest i think Trek wise we have all been really lucky as all the Trek movie are at least very watchable over and over again....
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Old November 27 2008, 05:58 PM   #99
Luminus
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Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

Haggis and Tatties wrote: View Post
STV might not have lit the Trek movie world on fire but its a fun movie at its core, and i think the shat did well on giving the movie a very TOS feeling about it in its interaction between the cast and characters, yes the effects are not great but they do the job, and i would rather have a character filled and flawed Trek story then the Picard and Data show that we had in Nemesis when all our fave other character took backseats and my as well have been cardboard cut outs in the back ground.

Not that Nemesis is not a watchable movie, and to be honest i think Trek wise we have all been really lucky as all the Trek movie are at least very watchable over and over again....
I can't watch Nemisis without analyzing and disecting it. It just has too many flaws. Insurrection is not a movie. It's a 2-hour episode and a weak one at that.
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Old November 28 2008, 05:18 PM   #100
Kryton
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Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

Ugh...I just watched TFF with Rifftrax and even THEY couldn't save it. I'm one step closer to suicide now. Bleah.
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Old November 28 2008, 11:26 PM   #101
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Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

Kryton, you know androids have no sense of humor...what were you thinking?!

Kidding, Red Dwarf is excellent.
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Old November 28 2008, 11:45 PM   #102
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Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

Interestingly enough, I was about to add a topic with the exact same subject as this one.

In the past few days, I've... uh, acquired all the Trek movies in 720p HD, and have been watching them one at a time.

When I came to Star Trek 5, I was stunned by how much better it is than how I remember it from a few years ago. Moreover, I have a crushing disappointment that Shatner & Co. weren't permitted to make the movie without interference from upstairs.

Strip away the nonsense comedy, the atrocious ending, the subpar effects work, and you have the seeds of what I'd consider to be a very good entry in the franchise, better in my eyes than the lazy and uninspired Genesis trilogy.

The opening with Sybok laughing, the idea of a planet of peace and paradise being a forgotten wasteland with no passion or feeling about it, a well-intentioned but misguided man on a quest to find God and Heaven, the idea that God exists in each of us... it's some great stuff.

The musical score is grand, the direction and cinematography are solid throughout. Far more interesting to look at than the muddy brown TWOK, the sound-stage TSFS, and sitcom TVH. Performances were great, Luckinbill's Sybok was great.

The pain scene? Absolutely superb. McCoy's euthanising his father, Spock facing a prior pain of being rejected by his father, yet in the years since, finding his place with his human friends.

I only wish the idea of a man seeking Heaven, but finding Hell instead, only realising it after he gets there, was kept intact, and properly realised with some real and artistic special effects.

In short, I thoroughly enjoyed the good parts, and lament would could have been.
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Old November 29 2008, 12:02 AM   #103
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Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

elton wrote: View Post
Interestingly enough, I was about to add a topic with the exact same subject as this one.

In the past few days, I've... uh, acquired all the Trek movies in 720p HD, and have been watching them one at a time.

When I came to Star Trek 5, I was stunned by how much better it is than how I remember it from a few years ago. Moreover, I have a crushing disappointment that Shatner & Co. weren't permitted to make the movie without interference from upstairs.

Strip away the nonsense comedy, the atrocious ending, the subpar effects work, and you have the seeds of what I'd consider to be a very good entry in the franchise, better in my eyes than the lazy and uninspired Genesis trilogy.

The opening with Sybok laughing, the idea of a planet of peace and paradise being a forgotten wasteland with no passion or feeling about it, a well-intentioned but misguided man on a quest to find God and Heaven, the idea that God exists in each of us... it's some great stuff.

The musical score is grand, the direction and cinematography are solid throughout. Far more interesting to look at than the muddy brown TWOK, the sound-stage TSFS, and sitcom TVH. Performances were great, Luckinbill's Sybok was great.

The pain scene? Absolutely superb. McCoy's euthanising his father, Spock facing a prior pain of being rejected by his father, yet in the years since, finding his place with his human friends.

I only wish the idea of a man seeking Heaven, but finding Hell instead, only realising it after he gets there, was kept intact, and properly realised with some real and artistic special effects.

In short, I thoroughly enjoyed the good parts, and lament would could have been.
I completely agree. I wish it had done well enough or had a decent enough reputation (ala TMP) to warrant a special director's cut.

But alas, I don't think that'll happen.
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Old November 29 2008, 01:40 AM   #104
Kryton
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Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

Um...VULCAN NECK PINCH ON A HORSE!

Sorry...there are lots of reasons to dislike this film. Once in a while, one just slips out and forces me to post it.
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Old November 29 2008, 03:00 AM   #105
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Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

That was one element of humour that was actually well done, didn't feel shoe-horned in, and didn't draw attention to itself.

There were other similar instances, McCoy's "I liked him better before he died" was humourous as well. Underplayed, quite funny.
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