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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 31 22.30%
Above Average 58 41.73%
Average 32 23.02%
Below Average 12 8.63%
Poor 6 4.32%
Voters: 139. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 18 2008, 07:44 PM   #166
Lonemagpie
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

Good Will Riker wrote: View Post
[
Then, what was up with Mathis giving away the secret to Le Chiffre a warning that James Bond knew of his "poker tell" thus prompting Le Chiffre to signal a "false tell" towards Bond almost costing MI6 the game?
He didn't. We don't see anyone tell Le Chiffre, but the two people Bond tells are Vesper and Mathis, and Bond merely assumes that Mathis passed it on because (at that point) he couldn't imagine Vesper having done it.

Also, what was that stuff that Mathis poured into Bond's water cup in Casino Royale if it wasn't poison?
Booze I presume - it was the girl in Le Chiffre's entourage who poisoned Bond's martini

However Mathis was presented in Quantum of Solace, it is clear by all on screen evidence that he was clearly a villain in Casino Royale.
No. The only evidence we have for it is Le Chiffre claiming that this is the case ("Your friend Mathis, is *my* friend Mathis"), and he's not exactly a reliable source of information!
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Old November 18 2008, 07:48 PM   #167
Indysolo
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
Good Will Riker wrote: View Post
Also, what was that stuff that Mathis poured into Bond's water cup in Casino Royale if it wasn't poison?
Booze I presume - it was the girl in Le Chiffre's entourage who poisoned Bond's martini
When Bond is at the hospital and talking to Mathis, Mathis pours some powder into a glass of water. But since Bond is recuperating at that point, medicine at a hospital isn't out of the question. And since the movie wants us to think Mathis is the villain, the scene has a sinister flavor to it. At the end M says Mathis wasn't involved, but Bond doesn't believe it. But it's clear that Mathis was on Bond's side all along. QoS only reiterates that.

Neil
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Old November 18 2008, 07:53 PM   #168
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

Indysolo wrote: View Post
When Bond is at the hospital and talking to Mathis, Mathis pours some powder into a glass of water.
Oh, that bit.

Yeah, it's presumably some sort of medicine - it's just Bond who thinks it might be something sinister because he's been told Mathis is bad (by Le Chiffre) and Vesper hasn't nicked all the cash yet...
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Old November 18 2008, 08:39 PM   #169
Good Will Riker
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

^^^

I will have to go back and rewatch Casino Royale on DVD to confirm this.

But, Le Chiffre's "Your friend Mathis is my friend Mathis" line as well as the suspicious powder inside the cup Mathis offers to James Bond is quite telling, eventhough M says otherwise at the end.
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Old November 18 2008, 08:46 PM   #170
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

This is making me want to rewatch Casino Royale as well.
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Old November 18 2008, 09:19 PM   #171
Indysolo
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

Good Will Riker wrote: View Post
^^^

I will have to go back and rewatch Casino Royale on DVD to confirm this.

But, Le Chiffre's "Your friend Mathis is my friend Mathis" line as well as the suspicious powder inside the cup Mathis offers to James Bond is quite telling, eventhough M says otherwise at the end.
Le Chiffre said that so Bond would trust Vesper and not an actual ally. The powder is only suspicious because Bond doesn't trust Mathis at that point.

Neil
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Old November 18 2008, 09:31 PM   #172
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

At least until the next movie where it's revealed Mathis is like the Blofeld of Quantum and faked his death in QoS.
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Old November 18 2008, 10:53 PM   #173
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

Here's an idea:

Read the fucking book.
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Old November 18 2008, 11:12 PM   #174
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

TG Theodore wrote: View Post
Silversmok3 wrote: View Post
The word consequence just didn't exist.
I think Tracy Bond getting shot to death on their honeymoon was a pretty big consequence.

--Ted
Actually, this proves his original point. Tracy was killed at the very end of OHMSS, so we had about three seconds of a grieving Bond then the credits rolled. The next movie, it was as if Tracy never existed. And she was utterly forgotten throughout the rest of the series, with the very occasional nod (Roger Moore visiting her grave once, and one reference by Felix Leighter in LTK that Bond was "married once, a long time ago.") There were almost no consequences to Bond having lost his bride in such a brutal and violent way.

Fleming treated it quite different in the novels, with Bond being utterly shattered and unable to work at the beginning of the next book (You Only Live Twice), and M nearly firing him because of his indifference to the job. He kills Blofeld to avenge Tracy's death, but the novel ends with him living with Kissy Suzuki as an amnesiac who has completely forgotten his life - Fleming's hint that he has completely buried his memories so he can live without the devastating memory of Tracy's assassination.

The consequences in the novel were extremely significant, but almost nonexistant in the film series. The death of Vesper in the film version of CR and its impact on the QoS movie is much closer to how Fleming treated Tracy's death in the OHMSS and YOLT novels.
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Old November 19 2008, 12:42 AM   #175
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

Good Will Riker wrote: View Post
^^^

I will have to go back and rewatch Casino Royale on DVD to confirm this.

But, Le Chiffre's "Your friend Mathis is my friend Mathis" line as well as the suspicious powder inside the cup Mathis offers to James Bond is quite telling, eventhough M says otherwise at the end.
CR keeps it ambiguous whether or not Mathis was a baddie or not. At the end of the movie, the conversation between Bond and M goes along these lines:

M: At least this clears Mathis.
Bond: No.
M: No?
Bond: It just proves that she's guilty; not that he's innocent. It could have been a double blind.

They leave Mathis's intentions open, although several things in the movie suggest he really was with the baddies (although the alka seltzer he gave to Bond never really made me think he was giving it to him for nefarious purposes - that wouldn't make sense to kill Bond with the bad guys still needed the damn passcode [plus Vesper's deal]).

QoS shows that Mathis was innocent all along clearing up the ambiguity from CR.
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Old November 19 2008, 01:57 AM   #176
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Here's an idea:

Read the fucking book.
Here's a BETTER idea: you read the fuckin' books, and see that Mathis never dies in any of them.
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Old November 19 2008, 02:00 AM   #177
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

CaptJimboJones wrote: View Post
TG Theodore wrote: View Post
Silversmok3 wrote: View Post
The word consequence just didn't exist.
I think Tracy Bond getting shot to death on their honeymoon was a pretty big consequence.

--Ted
Actually, this proves his original point. Tracy was killed at the very end of OHMSS, so we had about three seconds of a grieving Bond then the credits rolled. The next movie, it was as if Tracy never existed.
Well, the DAF PTS is about him getting revenge, though it isn't specific. What I found interesting in an old issue of BONDAGE is that a writer who was on the DAF set leafed through the script and talked to the director and was told the Bond/2Blofeld scene in mid-film (in the WW apt) was going to include a pointed and specific reference to the death of Tracy. It clearly is not in the film, but you can see Connery registering some emotion toward the end of the scene, almost like a kid going to bed w/o supper, so maybe more was shot and the stuff was snipped.
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Old November 19 2008, 02:02 AM   #178
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

MeanJoePhaser wrote: View Post
Polarizing movie, innit?

I didn't get a Trek trailer, Instead I got Clive "NOT BOND" Owen in The International (not to be confused with Christopher Walken's The Continental), some Adam Sandler shit, some Jim Carrey shit and some Will Smith shit.

Personally, I'd pay to see Daniel Craig kick them all in the face.
Wouldn't happen, guy, Clive Owen would wipe the floor with Craig, who is so short he probably couldn't even reach the other guy with a roundhouse.
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Old November 19 2008, 02:03 AM   #179
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
I dunno about that - I suspect he's our new Blofeld. Remember he was the only one smart enough not to give himself away in the opera house...
In early cuts of the movie, at the very end, Bond killed White and then introduced himself to Guy Haines (the advisor to the Prime Minister mentioned earlier in the movie) at his estate. That was then followed by the gunbarrel sequence and credits.
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Old November 19 2008, 02:03 AM   #180
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
One thing I was wondering about the whole SPECTRE/QUANTUM thing is, what about Blofeld? He's a Flemming creation and has nothing to do with Mcclory.

Couldn't they just make him the head of this Quantum thing?
Blofeld was introduced in the book of THUNDERBALL, which is the novel taken from the unmade McClory film, so McClory had EVERY right to SPECTRE and Blofeld.
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