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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 31 22.30%
Above Average 58 41.73%
Average 32 23.02%
Below Average 12 8.63%
Poor 6 4.32%
Voters: 139. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 18 2008, 04:50 AM   #151
Good Will Riker
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

TG Theodore wrote: View Post
Good Will Riker wrote: View Post
TG Theodore wrote: View Post

I think Tracy Bond getting shot to death on their honeymoon was a pretty big consequence.

--Ted
Technically, that was George Lazenby's Bond.

The above poster was referring to Connery/Dalton/Brosnan.
Yes, I know, but he essentially was talking about pre-Craig lack of consequences for Bond.

--Ted
Quite true.

I feel the sameway everytime the mass media reports on a "New type of Bond girl who can shoot guns and kick ass along with the guys than the damsels in distress of past Bond girls" when in the 1960's that concept was already revolutionized by Honor Blackman, Lucianna Paluzzi, and Diana Rigg.
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Old November 18 2008, 05:41 AM   #152
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

Lots of stuff has been said, but in short, I graded it Average (although, I would place it between Above Average and Average).

The biggest weakness was that they had a very weak villain where his scheme is not fully explained, particularly why they want to screw Bolivia out of water. I get the implication, but a Bond movie should be where you have to sit there and think what the villain was up to after the movie. Stuff like that can be good in other movies, but not a Bond flick, imo.

The action scenes were terribly edited, particularly towards the beginning. The Pre-Titles sequence was lousy and very sub-par for a Bond movie. I was expecting some kind of quip or smart ass comment from Bond when he opened the trunk (like "How was your ride?" or some other jerk comment). But, no. Just a "Get out of the trunk." Personally, I think the chase with the MI6 traitor would have been a stronger PTS.

So...who else knew that Mitchel was a baddie? With everyone warmly saying hi to a character by name that we have never seen before just seemed to mark him.

The Title sequence was interestingly retro. It had a 70s flair. I wonder if that was intentional as CR's titles had a 60's feel to it. The song seemed to work with it.

That said, there was a lot of good. I am happy they revealed Mathis to be a good guy after all. That was one of my irritations with CR that made Mathis into a villain, when in the novels he was one of Bond's closest allies. Although, he didn't bring anything to the story other than to die. Honestly, what did he do that Bond absolutely needed him for? The money to get to Bolivia or wherever? If Bond was resourceful enough to get to where Mathis was, he could get to wherever else he needed to go.

One last question: Why did everyone call "M" mom? I thought that was just a throwaway jab by Bond in the previous film. Is that wasn't M is now suppose to stand for?

Also...what happened to Villers? (Not that that's a big loss; just curious)

Good Will Riker wrote: View Post
Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
Barbara Broccoli says that Camille could come back.

When asked if new Bond girl Olga Kurylenko could return, Barbara confirmed there was a strong possibility.

She told Heart: “I think she’s a spectacular actress and she’s done an amazing job in this movie. She blew us away.”

“We would certainly love to have her back. If it’s not in the next movie, then certainly in the future.”
Source
They said the same about Michelle Yeoh from Tomorrow Never Dies (Olga Kurylenko's personal favorite Bond girl) , and look what happened.
The same was also said of Jinx. She was going to get a spin-off movie too. Remember how awesome that was? Oh, wait...

Indysolo wrote: View Post
Casino Royale didn't open as well as Die Another Day because DAD isn't a good film and people really didn't respond to it.
But...CR had a better opening than DAD. It seems that, within "recent times", each Bond movie has trumped the previous one in terms of opening gross.
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Old November 18 2008, 06:59 AM   #153
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

I just got back from seeing it. I think I'll give it Average. I wanted to give it above average, but the plot was just so thin.

I think it suffers from the same problem the first two Star Wars prequels had: that is, they focused so much on setting up the plot for the next one, that they forgot about the plot for this one. And then of course, they also spent half the time filling in the holes from the last film.

It's just not a movie that stands very well on its own, and that's not what a James Bond movie should be.

I'm sure after the next one comes out, we'll have a nice trilogy, or whatever. But, that's not really the MO of the franchise.

Just when I was beginning to convince myself the Chopping Broccolis were starting to get it, they proved once again they don't know what the fuck they're doing.

marillion wrote: View Post
Well, at least YOU got the Star Trek trailer.. We seemed to get trailers to every movie BUT the new Star Trek... Grrrrr...
Same. Where did you go? I went to Century Rio 24. I counted 13 trailers, not one of them was Star Trek.
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Old November 18 2008, 11:18 AM   #154
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

Broccoli wrote: View Post
One last question: Why did everyone call "M" mom?
I think you'll find they were calling her ma'am!

I guessed Mitchell from the trailer alone. Mr. White saying 'we have people everywhere' was just so obvious!

I would agree that Greene's plan perhaps wasn't explained well enough, but people need to realise that in a few decades water will be worth more than oil to an awful lot of people. My assumption was that Quantum were going to 'discover' a huge cache of water and sell it to the beleaguered Bolivians (or whoever). Personally I liked it, Green had a more traditional film baddie plan than, say, Le Chiffre.

I am slightly worried. It took me three viewings to really like Casino Royale, I wonder if by three viewings of QoS I'll hate it??

And why do people keep going on about a trilogy? For me CR and QOS bookend the story of Bond's birth (and the gun barrel at the end reiterates this)

I expect Bond 22 to be a stand alone story, it might feature Quantum, but it won't follow on directly.
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Old November 18 2008, 02:29 PM   #155
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

Starkers wrote: View Post
Broccoli wrote: View Post
One last question: Why did everyone call "M" mom?
I think you'll find they were calling her ma'am!
Yeah. They're British. "Ma'am" sounds like "mum."
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Old November 18 2008, 05:21 PM   #156
Good Will Riker
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

Broccoli wrote: View Post
That said, there was a lot of good. I am happy they revealed Mathis to be a good guy after all. That was one of my irritations with CR that made Mathis into a villain, when in the novels he was one of Bond's closest allies.
Mathis was a turncoat villain in the film adaptation of Casino Royale, but the writers of Quantum of Solace ret-conned him back into a good guy to redeem him before his death.

You don't go from intentionally trying to cheat the British government out of $100 million+ to Le Chiffre and try to poison Bond and then turn around and become Bond's friend "just like that."

I don't buy it. That kind of sudden "change of heart" is more a product of lazy writing more than anything else.

Which is also the reason why the end of Casino Royale set up Mr. White as being linked to a bigger conspiracy, where Craig's Bond needed answers, made the audience believe that Mr. White was going to be a larger presence in the sequel. However, all we got in Quantum of Solace with the character of Mr. White was the writers using him as nothing more than a cipher to establish that he is one of thousands of faces among Quantum in the sequel than as an actual developed and fleshedout character. A product of lazy writing if I ever saw one.

Although, he didn't bring anything to the story other than to die. Honestly, what did he do that Bond absolutely needed him for? The money to get to Bolivia or wherever? If Bond was resourceful enough to get to where Mathis was, he could get to wherever else he needed to go.
This sounds more of a case of bringing back actor Giancarlo Giannini (Mathis) for the sequel due to contractual obligations more than anything else. The writers wanted to write a new story for the sequel, so they just offed Mathis so that his presence would not be a loose thread that needed to be tied up in further sequels down the road.

Mathis's story arc came to a logical conclusion in Casino Royale. He didn't need to be brought back for Quantum of Solace.

Starkers wrote: View Post

I would agree that Greene's plan perhaps wasn't explained well enough, but people need to realise that in a few decades water will be worth more than oil to an awful lot of people. My assumption was that Quantum were going to 'discover' a huge cache of water and sell it to the beleaguered Bolivians (or whoever). Personally I liked it, Green had a more traditional film baddie plan than, say, Le Chiffre.
In my opinion, the only realistic Bond villain plots were from Licence to Kill (drugs), The World Is Not Enough (oil), and Casino Royale (money), where there was no elaborate lair or the villain's ultimate weapon in thwarting the western world. They were just greedy czars or tycoons that went straight after what they wanted without all of the fancy and contrived setups of most other "moustache twirling" Bond villains.

Greene's plan sounds contrived and leaving some audience members scratching their heads going "Huh? The villain set up all of this for that? ?" like Elliott Carver's ludicrous plan in "making tomorrow's news to make more money" in Tomorrow Never Dies.

Last edited by Good Will Riker; November 18 2008 at 05:44 PM.
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Old November 18 2008, 05:24 PM   #157
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

One thing I was wondering about the whole SPECTRE/QUANTUM thing is, what about Blofeld? He's a Flemming creation and has nothing to do with Mcclory.

Couldn't they just make him the head of this Quantum thing?
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Old November 18 2008, 06:34 PM   #158
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

Broccoli wrote: View Post
Good Will Riker wrote: View Post
They said the same about Michelle Yeoh from Tomorrow Never Dies (Olga Kurylenko's personal favorite Bond girl) , and look what happened.
The same was also said of Jinx. She was going to get a spin-off movie too. Remember how awesome that was? Oh, wait...
Michelle Yeoh *was* asked back to play Wai Lin in Die Another Day (she would have combined the role Chang and the Chinese girl have in the hotel in Hong Kong) but wasn't available on the filming dates.
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Old November 18 2008, 06:38 PM   #159
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

Good Will Riker wrote: View Post
Mathis was a turncoat villain in the film adaptation of Casino Royale,
No, he wasn't...

Which is also the reason why the end of Casino Royale set up Mr. White as being linked to a bigger conspiracy, where Craig's Bond needed answers, made the audience believe that Mr. White was going to be a larger presence in the sequel. However, all we got in Quantum of Solace with the character of Mr. White was the writers using him as nothing more than a cipher to establish that he is one of thousands of faces among Quantum
I dunno about that - I suspect he's our new Blofeld. Remember he was the only one smart enough not to give himself away in the opera house...
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Old November 18 2008, 06:53 PM   #160
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

Good Will Riker wrote: View Post
Mathis was a turncoat villain in the film adaptation of Casino Royale, but the writers of Quantum of Solace ret-conned him back into a good guy to redeem him before his death.

You don't go from intentionally trying to cheat the British government out of $100 million+ to Le Chiffre and try to poison Bond and then turn around and become Bond's friend "just like that."

I don't buy it. That kind of sudden "change of heart" is more a product of lazy writing more than anything else.
Mathis was never bad in CR. It was Vesper all along.

Neil
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Old November 18 2008, 07:02 PM   #161
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
Good Will Riker wrote: View Post
Mathis was a turncoat villain in the film adaptation of Casino Royale,
No, he wasn't...
Correct. We were just supposed to think he was.
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Old November 18 2008, 07:09 PM   #162
Good Will Riker
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
Good Will Riker wrote: View Post
Mathis was a turncoat villain in the film adaptation of Casino Royale,
No, he wasn't...

Indysolo wrote: View Post
Mathis was never bad in CR. It was Vesper all along.

Neil
Then, what was up with Mathis giving away the secret to Le Chiffre a warning that James Bond knew of his "poker tell" thus prompting Le Chiffre to signal a "false tell" towards Bond almost costing MI6 the game?

Also, what was that stuff that Mathis poured into Bond's water cup in Casino Royale if it wasn't poison?

However Mathis was presented in Quantum of Solace, it is clear by all on screen evidence that he was clearly a villain in Casino Royale.

As far as the character of Mathis is concerned, it sounds awful like a ret-con to me by the writers in Quantum of Solace.
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Old November 18 2008, 07:12 PM   #163
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

I was fine with Mathis in QoS. I was not fine with his random death.
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Old November 18 2008, 07:15 PM   #164
Good Will Riker
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
I was fine with Mathis in QoS. I was not fine with his random death.
The character of Mathis reminds me of Damar from DS9.

He turned out to be a villian (Going so far as shooting an unarmed Ziyal in the back), but redeemed himself in the end (By helping to liberate a Dominion-occupied Cardassia).
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Old November 18 2008, 07:29 PM   #165
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Re: Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

Good Will Riker wrote: View Post
Then, what was up with Mathis giving away the secret to Le Chiffre a warning that James Bond knew of his "poker tell" thus prompting Le Chiffre to signal a "false tell" towards Bond almost costing MI6 the game?
Again, it was Vesper.

Good Will Riker wrote: View Post
Also, what was that stuff that Mathis poured into Bond's water cup in Casino Royale if it wasn't poison?
Probably some medicine. It was a little bit of mis-direction on the film makers part, to make you think it was Mathis and not Vesper.

Good Will Riker wrote: View Post
However Mathis was presented in Quantum of Solace, it is clear by all on screen evidence that he was clearly a villain in Casino Royale.
No, it was Vesper. Le Chiffre and Vesper were framing Mathis.

Neil
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