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Old October 28 2008, 11:57 PM   #16
Ethros
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Re: Buffy's Tom Lenk officially out of the closet

I'm happy for him whatever he does, but there's Tom Lenk and there's Andrew Wells, and whether the actors gay or not doesn't really make a difference to the character.

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Old October 29 2008, 01:13 AM   #17
CorporalClegg
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Re: Buffy's Tom Lenk officially out of the closet

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
CorporalCreepy wrote: View Post
^
But then, how often is it that when a celeb comes out people are sincerely surprise?
People were sincerely surprised in the 90's when it was abnormal for people to do so. Coming Out is so 'yesterday'.

The gay movement has been successful in making people go whatever and then say "back to some real news please".
That was sort of my point. Homosexuality really isn't a big deal anymore. It's such that people are pretty openly gay whether they've "come out" or not.

Therefore, the whole thing seems more for publicity than anything.
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Old October 29 2008, 01:43 AM   #18
Thrall
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Re: Buffy's Tom Lenk officially out of the closet

<--Not surprised.
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Old October 29 2008, 03:35 AM   #19
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Re: Buffy's Tom Lenk officially out of the closet

Thrall wrote: View Post
<--Not surprised.
Agreed.

Now, if he came out and said he's a top - that would be a surprise.
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Old October 29 2008, 03:45 AM   #20
RoJoHen
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Re: Buffy's Tom Lenk officially out of the closet

Caleuche wrote: View Post
^Or as odd as its seems now, most people seemed surprised by George Michael.

Rock hudson or Raymond Burr may be better examples of surprising coming outs though.
The 80s made everybody seem gay.
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Old October 29 2008, 06:28 AM   #21
Guy Gardener
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Re: Buffy's Tom Lenk officially out of the closet

RoJoHellraiser wrote: View Post
Caleuche wrote: View Post
^Or as odd as its seems now, most people seemed surprised by George Michael.

Rock hudson or Raymond Burr may be better examples of surprising coming outs though.
The 80s made everybody seem gay.
There used to be this drug called cocaine in the 80s.

EVERYTHING seemed like a good idea.
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Old October 29 2008, 10:17 AM   #22
Tulin
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Re: Buffy's Tom Lenk officially out of the closet

"Lenk pinged quite a few gaydars including Buffy creator Joss Whedon"
This is the part that interested me, since my partner SWEARS that Joss Whedon is gay. He has the look and SO knows how to write for young girls.

Hmmmmmmmm............
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Old October 29 2008, 04:22 PM   #23
exodus
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Re: Buffy's Tom Lenk officially out of the closet

Deathdealer wrote: View Post
Thrall wrote: View Post
<--Not surprised.
Agreed.

Now, if he came out and said he's a top - that would be a surprise.
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Old October 29 2008, 04:24 PM   #24
Kaijufan
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Re: Buffy's Tom Lenk officially out of the closet

Tulin wrote: View Post
"Lenk pinged quite a few gaydars including Buffy creator Joss Whedon"
This is the part that interested me, since my partner SWEARS that Joss Whedon is gay. He has the look and SO knows how to write for young girls.

Hmmmmmmmm............
Yeah when I was first watching the DVD bonus features for Firefly/Buffy and really didn't know much about him I thought he was gay.
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Old October 29 2008, 05:15 PM   #25
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Re: Buffy's Tom Lenk officially out of the closet

Caleuche wrote: View Post
I always disliked the character of Andrew as I found it slightly homophobic in how everything about him was played for laughs. He was the guy who when the heroes were out fighting was hiding at home in his pinny and rubber gloves washing dishes. His obvious crushes on Warren/ Xander/ Spike were always used for cheap giggles. There was none of the respect that Willow/Tara got. They had character outside of their sexuality and their romantic life was always treated as seriously as any of the straight characters. So to be honest I find it slightly disturbing that a gay actor would so willingly contribute to such a stereotypical character.

(Not to say anything about the fact that the first chance the Angel writers got they turned him straight.)
Andrew was a weak character no matter his preferences. To me, he was JW's version of Gollum, albeit one who survived when he maybe should not have. Xander's last comment about Anya can be seen as being far more snide towards Andrew than her. His devotion to the heartless Warren was sad, whether in friendship or love, and he killed the only person who could stand to be around him (ala Smeagle's cousin). If TL had been directed to speak in a less stereotypical way (my brother had to point him out in Transformers) Andrew might have worked better. Everything in BTVS S7 was more than slightly overdone, in MO.
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Old October 29 2008, 05:55 PM   #26
exodus
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Re: Buffy's Tom Lenk officially out of the closet

Gojirob wrote: View Post
Caleuche wrote: View Post
I always disliked the character of Andrew as I found it slightly homophobic in how everything about him was played for laughs. He was the guy who when the heroes were out fighting was hiding at home in his pinny and rubber gloves washing dishes. His obvious crushes on Warren/ Xander/ Spike were always used for cheap giggles. There was none of the respect that Willow/Tara got. They had character outside of their sexuality and their romantic life was always treated as seriously as any of the straight characters. So to be honest I find it slightly disturbing that a gay actor would so willingly contribute to such a stereotypical character.

(Not to say anything about the fact that the first chance the Angel writers got they turned him straight.)
Andrew was a weak character no matter his preferences. To me, he was JW's version of Gollum, albeit one who survived when he maybe should not have. Xander's last comment about Anya can be seen as being far more snide towards Andrew than her. His devotion to the heartless Warren was sad, whether in friendship or love, and he killed the only person who could stand to be around him (ala Smeagle's cousin). If TL had been directed to speak in a less stereotypical way (my brother had to point him out in Transformers) Andrew might have worked better. Everything in BTVS S7 was more than slightly overdone, in MO.
I disagree.

Andrew was the next generation of Xander, despite whatever his sexuality was. Xander had grown up and his humor was becoming more jaded due to his experances. Andrew replaced that, by bringing back whimsy to the show in a season that most needed it. Xander couldn't even cry for Anya upon her death, while Andrew did.
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Old October 29 2008, 06:17 PM   #27
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Re: Buffy's Tom Lenk officially out of the closet

I freely admit, I enjoyed every last squirm I felt when I recognized all of Andrew's refs. I think Vegeta would have killed him for the comparison, though.

Try this : http://www.southroad.com/brightfame/...nkyougirl.html

Its very short.
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Old October 29 2008, 06:29 PM   #28
exodus
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Re: Buffy's Tom Lenk officially out of the closet

Gojirob wrote: View Post
I freely admit, I enjoyed every last squirm I felt when I recognized all of Andrew's refs. I think Vegeta would have killed him for the comparison, though.

Try this : http://www.southroad.com/brightfame/...nkyougirl.html

Its very short.
In other words, Andrew could be a member here.
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Old October 29 2008, 06:45 PM   #29
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Re: Buffy's Tom Lenk officially out of the closet

Gojirob wrote: View Post
To me, he was JW's version of Gollum, albeit one who survived when he maybe should not have.
Probably the reason why he survived. Andrew wondered, in the finale, why he wasn't the one to have died: that would have provided the appropriate narrative closure, redemptive death, to his story so far. But Andrew's S7 arc was about not treating life like a story, and surviving the final battle when more 'deserving' characters didn't was just another way of disrupting the expected narrative, for the character and the audience.

What, me over-analyse?

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Old October 29 2008, 07:26 PM   #30
Gojirob
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Re: Buffy's Tom Lenk officially out of the closet

Rent Woman wrote: View Post
Gojirob wrote: View Post
To me, he was JW's version of Gollum, albeit one who survived when he maybe should not have.
Probably the reason why he survived. Andrew wondered, in the finale, why he wasn't the one to have died: that would have provided the appropriate narrative closure, redemptive death, to his story so far. But Andrew's S7 arc was about not treating life like a story, and surviving the final battle when more 'deserving' characters didn't was just another way of disrupting the expected narrative, for the character and the audience.

What, me over-analyse?

Creditorly yours, the Rent Woman
Fair analysis.
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