Q Who Slice...

[Trekker4747]

billcosby wrote:

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I thought for sure Voyager had run into plenty of borg that were former Federation members, linking to TNG episodes.

Voyager ran into every one of TNG's loose threads.

[Plecostomus]

Shelley's Axe wrote:

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A cellular peptide cake, with mint frosting.

Somehow I think assimilating Troi would lower the navigational perfection of the Collective... Also I really doubt they need someone to tell the collective that they the ship that fired on them might be hostile to the Collective. In other words Troi is irrelevant.

[Christopher]

Plecostomus wrote:

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Somehow I think assimilating Troi would lower the navigational perfection of the Collective...

Bull. She was at the helm of an out-of-control, non-aerodynamic hunk of metal larger than an aircraft carrier and plummeting out of orbit, and she landed it flat and in one piece with zero casualties. That's astonishingly good piloting.

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Plecostomus wrote:

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Somehow I think assimilating Troi would lower the navigational perfection of the Collective... Also I really doubt they need someone to tell the collective that they the ship that fired on them might be hostile to the Collective. In other words Troi is irrelevant.

Ah, but if they assimilate Lwaxana? The collective might self destruct just to put itself out of the misery.

[Trekker4747]

Christopher wrote:

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Bull. She was at the helm of an out-of-control, non-aerodynamic hunk of metal larger than an aircraft carrier and plummeting out of orbit, and she landed it flat and in one piece with zero casualties. That's astonishingly good piloting.

You've got a head on your shoulders. What are you doing in this argument?

[Christopher]

Shrekker4747 wrote:

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You've got a head on your shoulders. What are you doing in this argument?

What I'm doing is getting fed up with the coded sexism underlying the "Troi can't drive" gag. It's just the old misogynistic joke about women drivers in a new context. How many times did male characters crash the shuttlecraft they were piloting? But nobody ever blames them for the crashes, because our culture doesn't have a built-in stereotype about male drivers being inept. Only Deanna gets this kind of abuse, and I'm sick of it.

[lvsxy808]

Christopher wrote:

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Several, yes. Riley from "Unity" and Laura from "Unimatrix Zero" were taken at Wolf 359. Marika in "Survival Instinct" was taken from the Excalibur in an unspecified instance that could've been Wolf 359. Seven recovered the memories of a couple of Starfleet personnel in "Infinite Regress," including at least one Wolf 359 participant as well as an ensign from the starship Tombaugh, which was assimilated with its entire crew in 2362, several years before the official first contact in "Q Who." We also met a Romulan ex-drone in "Unity" and an assimilated Klingon general in "Unimatrix Zero." So there were no specific links to any TNG episodes other than BoBW.

All of this to me shows VOY's complete lack of creativity with regard to its Borg plotting. Anytime they need a Borg reference, it's "Oh let's just throw out Wolf 359" regardless of whether it actually makes any sense. If they could be bothered to come up with something more plausible that didn't require rewriting established history to make it work... but no. Wolf 359 is the obvious Borg reference everyone will always get, so we don't need to work any harder than that.

It's like with Seven aswell. They needed her to be an adult in "Scorpion" so they had to say she'd been assimilated twenty years before the established first contact, screwing up continuity. Then a year later they come with the idea of the future-drone incubating to maturity in a matter of hours. If they'd just thought of that for Seven, they could have avoided rewriting all the history.

[Trekker4747]

Christopher wrote:

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What I'm doing is getting fed up with the coded sexism underlying the "Troi can't drive" gag. It's just the old misogynistic joke about women drivers in a new context. How many times did male characters crash the shuttlecraft they were piloting? But nobody ever blames them for the crashes, because our culture doesn't have a built-in stereotype about male drivers being inept. Only Deanna gets this kind of abuse, and I'm sick of it.

Oh, I agree. I've spent much time trying to defend Troi's "driving" in Generations (and in NEM). Not sure I'd say it's sexism, but...

Ok. There's quite a bit of sexism in it.

I guess it's a good think Marina Sirtis isn't Asian, then people would REALLY be having a hoot!

I agree, in the situation she was in in "Generations" Troi's piloting was quite good.

[Plecostomus]

Christopher wrote:

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Bull. She was at the helm of an out-of-control, non-aerodynamic hunk of metal larger than an aircraft carrier and plummeting out of orbit, and she landed it flat and in one piece with zero casualties. That's astonishingly good piloting.

Indeed, but I doubt she could have pulled it off without Data's help rerouting the controls, after all he could reroute around the crippled systems faster than any mere meat-bag could... and besides the whole "Troi is useless" routine is hilarious.

That said I shold mention that "On-screen Troi Is Useless." She gets portrayed better in the TNG novels than she does on-screen, the difference between character portrayals is night and day.

[Christopher]

Plecostomus wrote:

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and besides the whole "Troi is useless" routine is hilarious.

No.

It really isn't.

[Timo]

All of this to me shows VOY's complete lack of creativity with regard to its Borg plotting. Anytime they need a Borg reference, it's "Oh let's just throw out Wolf 359" regardless of whether it actually makes any sense.

But the examples Christopher listed show that three assimilation references were to Wolf 359, while four were not. That's not "anytime".

And indeed VOY went out of its way to put a more interesting twist to every single Borg fact we thought we knew from TNG. First contact wasn't by Picard at J-25 in the 2360s, but by others, elsewhere, elsewhen. Borg babies weren't born but assimilated. The Drones had inner lives, and enjoyed many benefits. The Collective was complicated rather than simplistic, and had aims and goals beyond the obvious or the stated.

I have never gotten the argument that VOY "dumbed down" the Borg. Before VOY, they were half-baked cardboard villains, whipped out when a generic threat was needed and the Romulans had been used the previous week. Thanks to VOY, they became characters - indeed main characters worthy of opening credits!

Timo Saloniemi

[diankra]

Christopher wrote:

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What I'm doing is getting fed up with the coded sexism underlying the "Troi can't drive" gag. It's just the old misogynistic joke about women drivers in a new context. How many times did male characters crash the shuttlecraft they were piloting? But nobody ever blames them for the crashes, because our culture doesn't have a built-in stereotype about male drivers being inept. Only Deanna gets this kind of abuse, and I'm sick of it.

You would hate the trailers for Voyager Virgin 1 is running in the UK: a series of captions between clips reading 'Lost, halfway across the galaxy, with a woman in charge. Figures'. Dreadful sexism, and not even coded (the one for Enterprise is almost as bad, but suggesting that you'll 'see a lot' of T'Pol is at least accurate at times).