Comics Absorbing Influences from Other Media

[Christopher]

ElScoob wrote:

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I think the Paul Dini/Bruce Timm DC animated universe needs to be mentioned for bringing a lot of lasting influences to the comics. A number of original characters from the shows found their way into the DC Universe proper--Harley Quinn, Mercy Graves, Renee Montoya, Lock-Up, and probably a few others.

Lock-Up made it to the comics? Did Dini (who created the character) introduce him into the comics, or was that some other writer?

It's also worth noting that Paul Dini's current (recent?) run on Detective Comics has a very DCAU flavor, and has introduced DCAU concepts such as the Penguin going straight(ish) and opening the Iceberg Lounge.

Meanwhile, the new version of Brainiac that's just been introduced in the Superman comics seems very much like the DCAU version.

DCAU takes on established characters heavily informed the comics as well... Chief among these would be Mr. Freeze, who never had much of an interesting origin/backstory prior to the animated version. The tragic ex-scientist seeking to revive his wife has become the accepted comics version of the character.

And beyond. Batman and Robin used that origin as well, although it was a total mismatch for the tone of the movie and the casting choice of Arnold Schwarzenegger. (There were initial rumors that Patrick Stewart would play the role and that it would be closer to the tragic B:TAS version.)

Furthermore, the animated version of Green Lantern John Stewart led to a revival of that character in the comics. Prior to JL/JLU, John hadn't been a ringwielder in the comics for some time, serving as an occasional supporting character in the Green Lantern books. After the show gained popularity, John returned to active duty in the books, strongly resembling the animated incarnation in costume and hairstyle. Since then, the animated Stewart's Marine Corps background has been retconned into the comics, as well (the comic Stewart was an architect by trade--which remains the case--but he had never been depicted as having prior military service until recently).

Interesting -- I didn't know that. Good to see Stewart getting more attention in the comics. (Though is Earth ever going to get a female Green Lantern??)

[wamdue]

Hermiod wrote:

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Spider-Man was being heavily influenced by the movies - him gaining biological webshooters for a start.

you know I dont get that, if he is bitten by a Spider, and that gives him the ability to do what Spiders can, claiming walls, even a spider sense, why would he not get the ability to produce webs, like a Spider can?

[Hermiod]

^There's no reason why it shouldn't, except that Stan Lee and Steve Ditko didn't create him that way. The explanation why the movie version used biological webshooters makes perfect sense - how does a high school kid invent a super-adhesive that 3M couldn't ?

[wamdue]

Hermiod wrote:

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^There's no reason why it shouldn't, except that Stan Lee and Steve Ditko didn't create him that way. The explanation why the movie version used biological webshooters makes perfect sense - how does a high school kid invent a super-adhesive that 3M couldn't ?

guess I will have to ask Stan Lee

[Christopher]

The retcon later introduced in the comics was that the spider bite gave Peter an innate understanding of how spider silk worked, and that gave him the ability to create it artificially. Sure, that's a little silly, but I think it's less silly than having spinnerets conveniently grow in his wrists, of all places. Besides, it has the advantage of establishing him as an inventor and scientist rather than just some guy with mutant body parts. Peter's ability to solve problems with his intelligence and scientific knowhow has always been an integral part of his character in the comics, and it's one of the things I like best about him.

Besides, as I said, the comics never really committed to the biological-webshooter idea. They did a story that introduced them and then they never followed up on it; most of the stories that followed in the comics would've been no different if he'd still had webshooters.

[Hermiod]

^Whereas early in Brand New Day they made a point of saying he'd run out of money to buy the chemicals needed to make more.

[Christopher]

Well, of course BND resets the whole continuity, including wiping the whole organic-webshooter thing out of existence, so it's beyond the purview of my comments, which were about how the comics used (or failed to use) the idea during the time when it was supposed to be in-continuity.

[Technobuilder]

I keep hoping BND gets retconned. Mary Jane one ups Mephisto somehow and things go back to the way they were before.

Now whether or not that means that Spidey's secret is still out or not... who's to say, but for the love of God, he's married, he's a teacher, and his Aunt is Dead.

Let Peter grow up already.

[Hermiod]

^I, for one, liked the changes JMS made to Peter's life. I liked him being a science teacher, it suits him. Also, Aunt May finding out was written brilliantly. After he initial shock, I loved it when she started writing letters to Jameson demanding he treat Spider-Man better. JMS-era Aunt May was great.

[mostlyharmless]

Superman is looking quite Brandon Routhy in the books these days...

[Christopher]

Hermiod wrote:

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^I, for one, liked the changes JMS made to Peter's life. I liked him being a science teacher, it suits him. Also, Aunt May finding out was written brilliantly. After he initial shock, I loved it when she started writing letters to Jameson demanding he treat Spider-Man better. JMS-era Aunt May was great.

Absolutely. It's criminal to undo all that terrific character growth. Even if I agreed with breaking up the marriage (which I emphatically don't), I would've objected to them throwing out all the other cool stuff along with it. Aunt May as Peter's confidante was wonderful. It was the best thing that had been done with that character since... well, just about ever.

[LaxScrutiny]

Hermiod wrote:

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^Whereas early in Brand New Day they made a point of saying he'd run out of money to buy the chemicals needed to make more.

I've happily suspended my disbelief for 40 years that I've been a Spidey fan.

That said, unless he makes his web fluid out of a mix of hairspray and toothpaste, the idea that he is always nearly broke, scrambling to make the rent, pay May's hospital bills etc, doen't jive with having unlimited web fluid.

Moreover, how the hell did he make his web shooters? I'm a decent mechanic, I have a back room full of tools, but there's no way I could make those from scratch, much less find stock parts somewhere that I could modify.

For me, the ideal retcon would a mix of things they've tried. Peter creates his own web fluid in a gland in his body. Maybe his arse, but we don't have to know. But he has no way to shoot the stuff 40 or 50 feet.

Uncle Ben was a mechanical engineer who liked to putter around in his garage. He was making a device to spray, let's say paint, to do the side of the house easier when he was up on the ladder.

After Ben dies, Pete finds his little inventions and fills them up with web fluid.

Pete is a chemist, not an engineer, and is able to use his biological fluid in experiments to make different kinds of webbing by adding different solvents. The solvents are cheap and easy to come by, but in a pinch he can run to the bathroom and refill his cartridges with standard webbing.

[Christopher]

^^Umm... ick. Somehow I don't think comics readers in the 1960s would've been too comfortable with the idea of a superhero leaving his own bodily secretions dangling off of buildings all over the city. Heck, I'm not too comfortable with that.

The comics' explanation is that Peter isn't just a clever tinkerer, he's a genius. He has a gift for scientific invention.

[LaxScrutiny]

Christopher wrote:

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^^Umm... ick. Somehow I don't think comics readers in the 1960s would've been too comfortable with the idea of a superhero leaving his own bodily secretions dangling off of buildings all over the city. Heck, I'm not too comfortable with that.

The comics' explanation is that Peter isn't just a clever tinkerer, he's a genius. He has a gift for scientific invention.

Then, like Reed Richards and Tony Stark, they should show him actually inventing things.
The character they show on a regular basis doesn't have that capability.

Like I said, it doesn't have to be in his arse. The organic web shooters in his forearms shown in the movie are bodily secretions BTW. There's just no capacity in nature to "shoot" webs that distance, or the relative distance for something a spider's size. So I can see him loading up a mechanical spray device with his own web fluid, but not his body spraying it more than a few inches.

Anyway, I'll go back to suspending my disbelief.

[Christopher]

LaxScrutiny wrote:

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Then, like Reed Richards and Tony Stark, they should show him actually inventing things.
The character they show on a regular basis doesn't have that capability.

He did when Stan Lee wrote the comic, and often thereafter. Not only did Peter invent the webfluid, the webfluid cartridges, the webshooters, the spider-tracers, the tracer launcher, the tracer tracking device, the improved tracers that he could track directly with his spider-sense, and other paraphernalia, but he was often shown to whip up a special chemical formula or gadget when needed to defeat a bad guy -- such as the formula he whipped up that let him dissolve the Rhino's armor in their first encounter. Later on, in the early '80s comics, I believe, he came up with improved webshooters that were plastic rather than metal (to get around metal detectors) and had LED indicators to let him know when his web cartridges were running low.

(And then, of course, there was the time when he designed and built the Spider-Mobile... but we don't want to get into that.)

It's always been an intrinsic part of Spidey's character that he solves problems with his intelligence and creativity, not just with muscle and superpowers. That's one of my favorite things about the character, and one of the things that makes him a great role model for younger audiences -- a hero who shows the power of science and imagination.