RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,940
Posts: 5,390,518
Members: 24,722
Currently online: 570
Newest member: Jadakiss

TrekToday headlines

Forbes Cast In Powers
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

Dorn To Voice Firefly Character
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

No ALS Ice Bucket For Saldana
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

Free Star Trek Trexels Game
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22

New Trek-themed Bobble Heads
By: T'Bonz on Aug 21

IDW Publishing November Trek Comic
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Pegg/Wright Trilogy In The Works
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Star Trek: The Compendium Rebate Details
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Gold Key Archives Volume 2
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Takei Documentary Wins Award
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 5 2008, 10:44 PM   #91
cultcross
Say my name...
 
cultcross's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Re: Why hate replicator????

Timo wrote: View Post
The bottom line is this: no limitations have never been explicated for the replicator.
As I mentioned and you glossed over, so I looked up specifically:

JANEWAY: Those gel packs run half the critical systems on this ship. Once they run out, that’s it. We can’t replicate new ones.
VOY, Learning Curve.

Now, if it were possible to replicate new gel packs, don't you think they might have bothered to include this possibility in the replicators on board a ship which relies on them? To me, the meaning of this line is clear: they can't be replicated. And mentions elsewhere on Voyager of searching for dilithium strongly suggests this can't be replicated. Mining might be cheaper or easier back in the AQ but if it could be replicated, wouldn't Voyager have tried that?
__________________
This post terminates here. Please do not attempt to board.
cultcross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 6 2008, 11:25 AM   #92
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Why hate replicator????

I'm not sure about dilithium: if it takes a lot of energy or time or computing power to replicate it, Janeway would go for every opportunity to obtain it by other means, such as trade or direct mining. And it's not as if our heroes in VOY, TNG or DS9 really ever run out of dilithium, or go actively hunting for it. ("Demon" has them hunting for deuterium instead, which is a poor choice treknologically, but there you have it).

However, you make a good point about the gel-packs. If a well-equipped starship that in a previous episode was capable of replicating new neural tissue can't do those, then it might be that they really are unreplicable overall. And AFAIK, this is the only time in Trek when something is directly stated to be unreplicable (without the specifier "in our current predicament", as was used in TNG "Night Terrors").

One might of course argue that Janeway would be the sort of skipper to first run out of spare gel-packs and then start worrying about the fact that the lack of gel-packs makes the replicators inoperable.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 6 2008, 10:54 PM   #93
cultcross
Say my name...
 
cultcross's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Re: Why hate replicator????

Timo wrote: View Post
One might of course argue that Janeway would be the sort of skipper to first run out of spare gel-packs and then start worrying about the fact that the lack of gel-packs makes the replicators inoperable.

Besides, the line is pretty much in there because the jeopardy of the plotline entirely relied on the gel packs being a finite resource.
__________________
This post terminates here. Please do not attempt to board.
cultcross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2008, 04:36 AM   #94
SoM
Commander
 
SoM's Avatar
 
Re: Why hate replicator????

Timo wrote: View Post
in order to make latinum worth something, it is reasonable to assume that freedom of replication doesnt apply.
But "freedom of replication" should be seen as a relative thing. Dollar bills have value despite being made of worthless materials in a process that can be copied. Gold has value wholly disproportionate to the usefulness of the material itself. Future folks could easily continue to use paper bills or gold coins as currency even when replicators can create those essentially for free - the abstract value of those things would simply have to be coded into the items, like today's bills are transformed from toilet paper to currency by virtue of having a serial number.

The bottom line is this: no limitations have never been explicated for the replicator. Instead, it has been shown to be capable of astonishing things, with nary a shrug from our heroes when it does so. For it to be incapable of replicating substance X, something extraordinary would have to apply.

GPL might be something extraordinary, of course. But it might also be something as mundane as the silver out of which coins are minted.
The difference is though, that only the amount of latinum matters - standard coins (made out of various metals, such as copper-nickel alloy or copper-plated steel) and paper money hold a face value higher than their "scrap value" (i.e., the value of the metal in the coins, etc) because they constitute a promise to the bearer by the central bank of (insert-country here) to provide $X/£Y/€Z/etc worth of collateral on-demand.

GPL's monetary value, on the other hand, is purely a function of the quantity of latinum involved - as is made clear when Morn vomits up a small quantity of the stuff and Quark reacts as if he's been given the equivalent number of bricks. Thus, if it's not rare, the value collapses just as any market in a given substance collapses when the market's flooded. (and given the supposed energy surplus in ST times, if something can be replicated, it will be. Look at the tiny quantity Morn vomits at the end of WMFM, which Quark claims is around "a hundred bricks worth!" - and the episode makes clear that 100br is a LOT - and even a fraction of a gram becomes more than worth replicating).
SoM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 8 2008, 08:02 AM   #95
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Why hate replicator????

Of course, that pool of liquid could already carry the "serial numbers" that give it its abstract worth. Quark already knows the stuff is "money latinum" so he doesn't have to worry about it being uncoded "ordinary latinum" that would only attain value through a process analogous to the printing of bills.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 9 2008, 01:54 AM   #96
SoM
Commander
 
SoM's Avatar
 
Re: Why hate replicator????

Timo wrote: View Post
Of course, that pool of liquid could already carry the "serial numbers" that give it its abstract worth. Quark already knows the stuff is "money latinum" so he doesn't have to worry about it being uncoded "ordinary latinum" that would only attain value through a process analogous to the printing of bills.
Well, to do that, you'd have to imprint every individual atom (latinum being metallic, there would be no "molecules" per se) with its' own unique serial number - after all, if somewhere around 5-10ml constitutes ~100 bricks, how little is in a slip of GPL? Especially if you can extract that latinum from the slip and physically place it, along with similarly-extracted latinum, in new gold bricks to then make a whole brick of GPL while the brick holds the complete monetary value of a brick. And once you've then done that - a fiendish technical challenge, but probably not impossible - you then need to read all of the atoms to ensure there's no non-moneyed latinum mixed in and verify them. And, of course, you then need to prevent forgeries.

And is all this state intervention and enforcement really the (pre-Moogie) Ferengi?
SoM is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
replicator

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:52 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.