RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 137,861
Posts: 5,328,788
Members: 24,554
Currently online: 527
Newest member: Kastrol

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Inquisition
By: Michelle on Jul 12

Cubify Star Trek 3DMe Mini Figurines
By: T'Bonz on Jul 11

Latest Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Jul 10

Seven of Nine Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

Pegg The Prankster
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

More Trek Stars Join Unbelievable!!!!!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

Star Trek #35 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

New ThinkGeek Trek Apparel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Star Trek Movie Prop Auction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Drexler: NX Engineering Room Construction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 1 2008, 08:51 AM   #76
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Why hate replicator????

I can recall an Episode of TNG where Riker goes to some bar and talks to a lady with four arms playing piano, and says he doesnt have any money to bribe her...I would assume the entire ship had none or they would have called on that?
That was in "Unification", I think. In an analogous situation in "Chain of Command", Crusher used her feminine wiles to resolve a similar shortage of buying power. Both cases would involve an undercover mission of sorts, so perhaps our heroes would not be able to draw on the resources of their mothership easily?

More probably, though, Riker was just playing a role there - he was in uniform, he was openly Starfleet, open about inhuming the lady's recently-late hubby, and he might have given the lady the straight-guy act, on several levels. "I'm honest, I don't try to bribe you, I don't even carry money, but is there something else I might interest you in?"... Bringing along wads of replicated bills, coins or other valuables would not have helped Riker in that situation, but not bringing them along apparently had the desired effect.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1 2008, 11:28 AM   #77
jealousblues
Lieutenant
 
Re: Why hate replicator????

Timo wrote: View Post
I can recall an Episode of TNG where Riker goes to some bar and talks to a lady with four arms playing piano, and says he doesnt have any money to bribe her...I would assume the entire ship had none or they would have called on that?
That was in "Unification", I think. In an analogous situation in "Chain of Command", Crusher used her feminine wiles to resolve a similar shortage of buying power. Both cases would involve an undercover mission of sorts, so perhaps our heroes would not be able to draw on the resources of their mothership easily?

More probably, though, Riker was just playing a role there - he was in uniform, he was openly Starfleet, open about inhuming the lady's recently-late hubby, and he might have given the lady the straight-guy act, on several levels. "I'm honest, I don't try to bribe you, I don't even carry money, but is there something else I might interest you in?"... Bringing along wads of replicated bills, coins or other valuables would not have helped Riker in that situation, but not bringing them along apparently had the desired effect.

Timo Saloniemi
still id like to know where they get their money from, since I think ive heard it said we dont use money in those times. It was either Picard or Kirk, I cant remember anymore.
jealousblues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1 2008, 11:57 AM   #78
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Why hate replicator????

Kirk only said the highly ambiguous "We don't!" as a response to the query "Don't' tell me: they don't have money in the 23rd Century". Kirk might simply have been saying that he and his immediate friends were broke in the 23rd century, not an unlikely situation for hunted criminals at all...

In the 24th century, some people have declared outright that money is out of vogue. However, those "some people" have been underage civilians, namely Jake Sisko. It wouldn't be difficult to say that military personnel are allocated currency to help them with their foreign assignments, or interactions with foreigners during domestic assignments.

And it would be natural enough to assume that this currency is created out of thin air as needed, too. It would be mere decency that would stop the Feds from creating so much of this "counterfeit money" that it would collapse alien economies.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1 2008, 06:42 PM   #79
Damask
Commander
 
Re: Why hate replicator????

In Encounter at Farpoint didn't Crusher buy something on the station and go "charge it to Dr Crusher, USS Enterprise"?

Does the Federation provide credit cards too?
Damask is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1 2008, 11:43 PM   #80
jealousblues
Lieutenant
 
Re: Why hate replicator????

Damask wrote: View Post
In Encounter at Farpoint didn't Crusher buy something on the station and go "charge it to Dr Crusher, USS Enterprise"?

Does the Federation provide credit cards too?

For some reason i thought there was no money because there was no scarcity or something like that. I forgot who siad it.

and you are right about Crusher, she bought some kind of string or fabric or something.



Bear in mind im not super vigilant about any of this stuff and alot of my ideas are off memories of things i saw a long time ago ;-)
jealousblues is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2 2008, 08:41 AM   #81
DGCatAniSiri
Captain
 
Re: Why hate replicator????

Starfleet probably has some form of payment to those who serve, but in the Federation, when replicators are included in everyone's home (unless it is specifically taken out or the person building the house chooses not to include it), there's no need for them to carry money.

However, the Federation does come across many places that still use currency, so in order for the people who've signed up for fleet service to get around on those planets, they can withdraw the money in the form of the local currency.

Of course, I'm still fuzzy abou the case of worlds that haven't previously encountered the Federation or in cases like Quark's, where we often see Starfleet officers at the Dabo wheel...
DGCatAniSiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2 2008, 12:42 PM   #82
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Why hate replicator????

I'd think the money our Starfleet heroes use abroad is like glass baubles: you throw them at the natives, and they get to decide which sort they like, after which you can use those as currency.

Thus, Crusher would get his piece of cloth, and the Bandi merchant would contact her ship and specify the type of payment he wanted. The ship would then produce that payment, say, by replicating suitable coins or bills, or an appropriate amount of gold or ethanol or ratskins, or whatever. The UFP economy wouldn't lose a single credit-cent (the replication might cost 0.47 cents, though), but the Bandi economy would gain the desired amount of coins, bills, gold, booze or fur.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2 2008, 01:07 PM   #83
USS KG5
Vice Admiral
 
USS KG5's Avatar
 
Location: England's green and pleasant land.
Re: Why hate replicator????

^^^ My tag on this as well.
__________________
I believe in a better world, so I love Star Trek. I have to live in this one, so I love Battlestar Galactica.
USS KG5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2 2008, 03:11 PM   #84
Brian
Vice Admiral
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Location: Brian
Re: Why hate replicator????

Wasn't the idea of gold-pressed latinum that it couldn't be replicated? Gold lost its value once replicators were invented. The gold bars are just used to carry the latinum atoms. I'm sure I read/saw that somewhere. It would explain why people with access to replicators don't necessarily lead extravagant lives by replicating their own currency.
__________________
Rut nga’chuq loDpu’, rut nga’chuq be’pu’. yiqimHa’!
Brian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2 2008, 10:47 PM   #85
cultcross
Say my name...
 
cultcross's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Re: Why hate replicator????

Timo wrote: View Post
Kirk only said the highly ambiguous "We don't!" as a response to the query "Don't' tell me: they don't have money in the 23rd Century". Kirk might simply have been saying that he and his immediate friends were broke in the 23rd century, not an unlikely situation for hunted criminals at all...
On the other hand he also acted surprised and said "They're still using money - we need to get some" earlier in the film.

In the 24th century, some people have declared outright that money is out of vogue. However, those "some people" have been underage civilians, namely Jake Sisko.
Picard says it in First Contact, and very unambiguously.
"The economics of the future are somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th Century"

And it would be natural enough to assume that this currency is created out of thin air as needed, too. It would be mere decency that would stop the Feds from creating so much of this "counterfeit money" that it would collapse alien economies.
We've encountered substances that can't be replicated, odds are substances that are used as currency, such as latinum, are examples of such.
__________________
This post terminates here. Please do not attempt to board.
cultcross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3 2008, 07:42 AM   #86
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Why hate replicator????

We've encountered substances that can't be replicated.
But we haven't.

That is, no substance or construct has ever been described as unreplicable. Our heroes and villains may have failed to replicate some things in some situations, but they have never claimed they would be unreplicable in all circumstances.

On screen, the replicator has been shown to create living neural tissue, working phasers, complex computer circuitry, and even intricate alien machinery whose working principles are beyond UFP scientific understanding. There has been no statement to the effect that latinum or dilithium or antimatter could not be replicated, even though it is obvious that replication is not a primary production method for these substances.

It would seem to be a matter of replication costs vs. the costs of competing manufacturing methods. To create a kilogram of antimatter, you probably need ten kilograms of antimatter. And why replicate dilithium when recrystallizing your old dilithium, or mining new stuff with slave labor, is so much cheaper? Gold-pressed latinum probably isn't all that different from dollar bills: it's made of worthless materials that are readily available in the open market, but those materials are combined in a very specific manner that is somewhat expensive to reproduce, and this combination is arbitrarily given an abstract value for use as currency.

Or then latinum indeed cannot be replicated no matter how hard you try. But neither option has ever been stated on screen, and both remain open to speculation.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3 2008, 02:35 PM   #87
Brian
Vice Admiral
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Location: Brian
Re: Why hate replicator????

According to Memory Alpha:

Latinum was a rare silver liquid used as currency by the Ferengi Alliance and many other worlds. It cannot be replicated. For ease of transaction, latinum is usually suspended within gold to produce "gold-pressed" latinum. (DS9: "Who Mourns for Morn?")
__________________
Rut nga’chuq loDpu’, rut nga’chuq be’pu’. yiqimHa’!
Brian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2008, 12:18 PM   #88
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Why hate replicator????

...However, Memory Alpha is dead wrong about that claim - there is absolutely nothing in the aired version of "Who Mourns for Morn?" that would establish latinum as unreplicable. Or in any other episode, for that matter.

The part about unreplicability is backstage speculation. The part about suspending latinum in gold is the one that was explicated in "Who Mourns for Morn?".

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 4 2008, 10:05 PM   #89
cultcross
Say my name...
 
cultcross's Avatar
 
Location: United Kingdom
Re: Why hate replicator????

Timo wrote: View Post
We've encountered substances that can't be replicated.
But we haven't.
Weren't bio-neural gel packs stated to be non-replicable on Voyager?

Our heroes and villains may have failed to replicate some things in some situations, but they have never claimed they would be unreplicable in all circumstances.
Well that's a bit pedantic really isn't it - for discussing the purposes of an economy, something that we haven't managed to replicate pretty much counts as not able to be replicated, wouldn't you say?

As for latinum, you're correct in saying that it has never been explicitly stated that it can't be replicated, but I think it's a fair assumption - after all, gold is worthless, as you could replicate as much as you wanted, so in order to make latinum worth something, it is reasonable to assume that freedom of replication doesnt apply.
__________________
This post terminates here. Please do not attempt to board.
cultcross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 5 2008, 06:28 PM   #90
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Why hate replicator????

..for discussing the purposes of an economy, something that we haven't managed to replicate pretty much counts as not able to be replicated, wouldn't you say?
Not necessarily. Even though Romulans in "Data's Day" may have failed to replicate perfectly convincing body remains, this need not mean they couldn't have done it. It merely means they didn't think they would need to make a fake that was that good, only a fake that was this good.

That's the thing with forgery in general: there's little point in creating perfect five-dollar bills, because those will never go under close scrutiny, and perfection would cost more than the five dollars, but there is a lot of point in creating perfect hundred-dollar bills. Just because the five-dollar fake is crude is no proof that it's impossible to create a perfect hundred-dollar fake.

in order to make latinum worth something, it is reasonable to assume that freedom of replication doesnt apply.
But "freedom of replication" should be seen as a relative thing. Dollar bills have value despite being made of worthless materials in a process that can be copied. Gold has value wholly disproportionate to the usefulness of the material itself. Future folks could easily continue to use paper bills or gold coins as currency even when replicators can create those essentially for free - the abstract value of those things would simply have to be coded into the items, like today's bills are transformed from toilet paper to currency by virtue of having a serial number.

The bottom line is this: no limitations have never been explicated for the replicator. Instead, it has been shown to be capable of astonishing things, with nary a shrug from our heroes when it does so. For it to be incapable of replicating substance X, something extraordinary would have to apply.

GPL might be something extraordinary, of course. But it might also be something as mundane as the silver out of which coins are minted.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
replicator

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:55 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.