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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 21 2008, 06:41 PM   #16
Timo
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Re: Date system?

Using at least one stardate would probably be as mandatory as saying "phaser" or "warp" at least once in the movie.

Then again, DS9 regularly managed to avoid specifying the warp factor at which the hero ships flew, saying things like "maximum warp" rather than using the sort of numbers familiar from TOS or TNG. STXI might make an effort of avoiding specific stardates, too.

For the ultimate nerdy (mid-30s, owns his flat, car and two summer cottages, big event next May) preference, I offer the idea that TOS and TNG stardates work the exact same way: thousand units per year, with the 1000-1999 range falling on a year ending with "3", the 2000-2999 range on a year ending with "4" and so forth. It's just that our heroes in TOS are in the habit of dropping the first two digits from their six-digit stardates - just like we would say "the seventies" rather than "the nineteenseventies". The TNG heroes drop just one.

Hence, a date twelve and a half years before the beginning of TOS (SD 1300) would fall on SD 8800. Or more exactly, SD (12)1300 would be twelve and a half years after SD (10)8800. The system works near-perfectly that way, matching for example Kirk's birthday in his "Where No Man" tombstone...

Timo Saloniemi
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Old September 21 2008, 11:59 PM   #17
Lord Garth
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Re: Date system?

I think the stardates used will depend upon which era they're in at the time the stardate is given.

So far it seems like the movie takes place in the 2240s, 2250s, 2260s, and 2380s.

I think the 24th Century portion of the movie will probably be set somewhere from 2380-2385, so we're looking at stardate 57000-62999.

In the 2260s, I imagine the stardate would be somewhere in the low 1000's. Could be in the high three-digits.

Before that? Anyone's guess. They could be any combination of four numbers. Though I like the idea of shorthand stardates which stand in for a longer form.

Last edited by Lord Garth; September 22 2008 at 12:09 AM.
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Old September 22 2008, 12:21 AM   #18
Jackson_Roykirk
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Re: Date system?

^
^^but how does that work with Kirk's given birth date of 1277.1?

I agree with you that Abrams should use 4 digit numbers lower than 1300 (WNMHGB took place in the low 1300s), but there will bound to be "fans" who will jump all over Abrams if he uses a stardate lower than 1277.1 while Kirk is alive.

Obviously, Roddenberry and the TOS writers had no plan for how to tell time with stardates, mainly because it wasn't important in 1960 TV to care about details like that.

Therefore, since there is no viable system, Abrams should just devise his own, and let those complaining fans be damned.
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Old September 22 2008, 12:23 AM   #19
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Date system?

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
Just spew some random numbers with confidence, like Kirk did in the good ol' days. We'll eat it up.
This is the right answer.
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Old September 22 2008, 07:56 PM   #20
Samuel T. Cogley
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Re: Date system?

Starship Polaris wrote: View Post
Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
Just spew some random numbers with confidence, like Kirk did in the good ol' days. We'll eat it up.
This is the right answer.
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Old September 23 2008, 06:23 PM   #21
beneldon
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Re: Date system?

In a book called the Making of Star Trek, I believe there was an explaination of the erratic star dates ( other than they being broadcast out of production order) that had to do with the time dilation effect or something.

I've always liked explaining things in this show to conform to reality.

My favorite explanation was when I think Berman was asked how the Heisenberg compensators worked he simply replied "Very well, thank-you."
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Old September 23 2008, 06:30 PM   #22
Samuel T. Cogley
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Re: Date system?

beneldon wrote: View Post
My favorite explanation was when I think Berman was asked how the Heisenberg compensators worked he simply replied "Very well, thank-you."
He was all very pleased at the time, no doubt.
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Old September 23 2008, 08:15 PM   #23
Jackson_Roykirk
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Re: Date system?

beneldon wrote: View Post
In a book called the Making of Star Trek, I believe there was an explaination of the erratic star dates ( other than they being broadcast out of production order) that had to do with the time dilation effect or something.

I've always liked explaining things in this show to conform to reality.

My favorite explanation was when I think Berman was asked how the Heisenberg compensators worked he simply replied "Very well, thank-you."
Yeah, ya know... I was thinking about that explanation the other day...

...it's a really useless method of telling time, since there is no rhyme or reason to the dates, and they are dependent on where you were in space and how fast you were moving at the time. Dates need to be orderly, so people know the order in which things happened -- hence the reason for dates in the first place.

For example:

Person #1: Am I older than you?
Person #2: I don't know. When were you born?
Person #1: Stardate 1277.1. When were you born?
Person #2: Stardate 1081.5.
Person #1: So who's older?
Person #2: I don't know. I can't tell by using Stardates since they are so erratic.

If the dates could be different depending on time dilation, then what's the point of keeping time?
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Last edited by Jackson_Roykirk; September 24 2008 at 02:18 AM.
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Old September 23 2008, 10:00 PM   #24
Eric Cheung
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Re: Date system?

Well, one theory was that each ship had a different set of stardates. That obviously changed by the movies because there was definitely a sense of a common stardate system like Marcus' tape and the recording of Spock's last moments etc.

If the warp scale could change, then surely the stardate system could too. But I'd like to think that it starts sometime soon before Kirk's 5-year mission. What are some major political or technological events that might have been used as a reason for stardates? The only think I could think of is perhaps the introduction of the duotronic computers? Perhaps they were introduced after we thought (the second or third generation of computers on the Enterprise?).
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Old September 25 2008, 03:42 PM   #25
Timo
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Re: Date system?

^but how does that work with Kirk's given birth date of 1277.1?
Well, since you asked (and have had time to regret it):

It doesn't. Kirk is supposedly 34 years old in "The Deadly Years", for which the stardate is 3478, even though the theory would call either for SD 5XXX or for Kirk to be 32 years old.

Then again, Kirk is utterly senile when he claims he's 34; just moments before, he had been repeatedly confusing the numerals 2 and 4, and his friends had to remind him that 4 was correct while 2 was incorrect. So naturally he'd now be predisposed to say 34 rather than the correct 32.

OTOH, the date in Kirk's tombstone might have been a joke inserted by Gary "God" Mitchell, since his middle initial also seems to be incorrect...

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Old September 25 2008, 04:48 PM   #26
Jackson_Roykirk
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Re: Date system?

Timo wrote: View Post
^but how does that work with Kirk's given birth date of 1277.1?
Well, since you asked (and have had time to regret it):

It doesn't. Kirk is supposedly 34 years old in "The Deadly Years", for which the stardate is 3478, even though the theory would call either for SD 5XXX or for Kirk to be 32 years old.

Then again, Kirk is utterly senile when he claims he's 34; just moments before, he had been repeatedly confusing the numerals 2 and 4, and his friends had to remind him that 4 was correct while 2 was incorrect. So naturally he'd now be predisposed to say 34 rather than the correct 32.

OTOH, the date in Kirk's tombstone might have been a joke inserted by Gary "God" Mitchell, since his middle initial also seems to be incorrect...

Timo Saloniemi
^
^^That's all well and good, and the geeky part of me that tries to make grand sense of the TOS universe agrees with you . However, I'll stick with what I said before...

...TOS had no consistent system for stardates, so Abrams is free to use whatever system he wants,
which is akin to what Cogley said earlier:
Samuel T. Cogley wrote: View Post
Just spew some random numbers with confidence, like Kirk did in the good ol' days. We'll eat it up.
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Old October 1 2008, 05:52 PM   #27
USS Excelsior
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Re: Date system?

And on the first episode with Harry Mudd on the computer recording it said something about him losing a license or something on Stardate 1116 point something.
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