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Old September 28 2008, 04:02 AM   #181
Christopher
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Re: Greater Than The Sum Review *** POTENTIAL SPOILERS ***

jezor wrote: View Post
2) I found the epilogue somewhat underwhelming, particularly the idea that the Borg were now able to defeat the MVA "ultimate weapon" because Leybenzon failed to inject it into them, leaving it available for analysis. Given how many times the Borg have beaten these virus-type things, I thought that it wouldn't have ultimately defeated all of them even had Leybenzon succeeded, and even had he injected it, they might well have been able to analyze it with their own internal systems before it finished them off, so they'd have essentially the same edge. Or did I miss something critical?
The agent was designed to have a long incubation period so that it could spread pretty far through the Collective undetected before actually doing any damage. Since they wouldn't have noticed it was infecting them, they wouldn't have adapted to stop its spread.

Of course, if Leybenzon had succeeded, it would've probably only shut down the one cube, since they didn't have time in that emergency situation to let it spread gradually, and probably shortened its incubation period considerably. That was the problem with it -- it was more a long-term weapon than an immediate defense. But it was all they had at that point.

3) I have some Borg fatigue, as others have expressed, but in thinking about it, what other enemy is left to give these characters a serious challenge?
The ultimate challenges in Star Trek have always been the exploration of the universe and the quest to improve ourselves.
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Old September 28 2008, 11:16 PM   #182
jezor
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Re: Greater Than The Sum Review *** POTENTIAL SPOILERS ***

Christopher wrote: View Post
jezor wrote: View Post
2) I found the epilogue somewhat underwhelming, particularly the idea that the Borg were now able to defeat the MVA "ultimate weapon" because Leybenzon failed to inject it into them, leaving it available for analysis. Given how many times the Borg have beaten these virus-type things, I thought that it wouldn't have ultimately defeated all of them even had Leybenzon succeeded, and even had he injected it, they might well have been able to analyze it with their own internal systems before it finished them off, so they'd have essentially the same edge. Or did I miss something critical?
The agent was designed to have a long incubation period so that it could spread pretty far through the Collective undetected before actually doing any damage. Since they wouldn't have noticed it was infecting them, they wouldn't have adapted to stop its spread.

Of course, if Leybenzon had succeeded, it would've probably only shut down the one cube, since they didn't have time in that emergency situation to let it spread gradually, and probably shortened its incubation period considerably. That was the problem with it -- it was more a long-term weapon than an immediate defense. But it was all they had at that point.

3) I have some Borg fatigue, as others have expressed, but in thinking about it, what other enemy is left to give these characters a serious challenge?
The ultimate challenges in Star Trek have always been the exploration of the universe and the quest to improve ourselves.

Much obliged on both, particularly the vision of the second answer. Oh yes, and for the book! {ProfJonathan}
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Old September 30 2008, 04:03 PM   #183
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Re: Greater Than The Sum Review *** POTENTIAL SPOILERS ***

Of the three Borg-infested TNG-R books, this was by far my favorite (Q & A may have been the best overall). I like all of the new cast members introduced this time around (I think I dated T'Ryssa in college). I was a little miffed that Geordi didn't make an apprearance until about 100 pages in. He seems to get shorted a lot in these books. I hope all this "Geordi Can't Get a Woman" stuff goes somewhere. He lost his best friend and it would be nice if he finally found someone.

Like a lot of folks, I'm suffering from Borg Fatigue. I thought Christopher did an excellent job, don't get me wrong, but I'd like to see Jean-Luc and Co. tackle some strange new problem and explore a whole new situation.

Next up: Kobiyashi Maru and Destiny!
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Old September 30 2008, 04:51 PM   #184
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Re: Greater Than The Sum Review *** POTENTIAL SPOILERS ***

Well, I tried to serve Geordi in terms of quality instead of quantity. He may not have shown up in the early part of the book, but he had a significant presence in the rest.
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Old September 30 2008, 05:02 PM   #185
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Re: Greater Than The Sum Review *** POTENTIAL SPOILERS ***

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, I tried to serve Geordi in terms of quality instead of quantity. He may not have shown up in the early part of the book, but he had a significant presence in the rest.
I see your point. I did enjoy his reunion and interaction with Hugh. Good stuff there. I guess my frustration is his lack of development throughout all of the TNG-R books. Picard, Crusher, and Worf have all gone through significant life develpments, whether it be personal or professional. I guess part of me just wants to see all the remaining members of the old guard move forward.

BTW, I really did like you handling of Picard's thinking in terms of finding replacements for Ops, Science, Counselling, and Dipolmacy. The man had it made with Data and Deanna, and those two were built for multi-tasking (primarily for the realm of television writing). His approach for selecting the new people in those positions was well thoughout. Kudos.
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Old September 30 2008, 05:15 PM   #186
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Re: Greater Than The Sum Review *** POTENTIAL SPOILERS ***

o'brien's scotch wrote: View Post
I see your point. I did enjoy his reunion and interaction with Hugh. Good stuff there. I guess my frustration is his lack of development throughout all of the TNG-R books. Picard, Crusher, and Worf have all gone through significant life develpments, whether it be personal or professional. I guess part of me just wants to see all the remaining members of the old guard move forward.
Ahh, but note that Geordi is showing frustration about the very same thing in GTTS. Which is the first step toward doing something about it.

BTW, I really did like you handling of Picard's thinking in terms of finding replacements for Ops, Science, Counselling, and Dipolmacy. The man had it made with Data and Deanna, and those two were built for multi-tasking (primarily for the realm of television writing). His approach for selecting the new people in those positions was well thoughout. Kudos.
Thanks. When I was told I needed to replace T'Lana and Leybenzon, I realized I didn't just want to do the same thing over again. The new security chief had already been decided on, but I wondered if there was some alternative to plugging yet another counselor into the bridge crew. And that led me to the realization that there was good reason not to try to recapture the same structure as before.
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Old September 30 2008, 10:37 PM   #187
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Re: Greater Than The Sum Review *** POTENTIAL SPOILERS ***

Christopher,thank you,I enjoyed this book more than any in the recent TNG revival.
TBH though the recent upheavals in the Enterprises crew leave me with a singular problem...that is that there is nobody on the command crew that I,as an ordinary guy can identify with.
The female crewmembers are one thing but perhaps it is a failing on my part or conditioning from TV,movies or books,but I need a character that I can relate to on even a tenous level.
Picard is a remote hero by any standards,Geordi bores me.
As for "transfusion boy"-Worf will never be a hero to me.
Just my thoughts.
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Old September 30 2008, 11:25 PM   #188
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Re: Greater Than The Sum Review *** POTENTIAL SPOILERS ***

Were there ever any "ordinary guys" in the Enterprise crew? If anything, Geordi seems to come closest to that description. Well, Chief O'Brien more so, but he wasn't a regular. And maybe Riker in some ways, what with the poker playing and all, but he was more the sort of idealized man that ordinary guys only wish they were.
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Old October 1 2008, 01:38 PM   #189
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Re: Greater Than The Sum Review *** POTENTIAL SPOILERS ***

Perhaps my post was badly written so when I wrote "ordinary guys",I should have put the emphasis less on ordinary and more on guys.
After all,TNGs pilot and premiere season did focus on Rikers perspectives (as did Voyagers pilot on Paris).These (yeah,male,square-jawed types)were probably percieved by the producers as the most accessible to the (mostly male) audience.
Maybe I'm in the minority,and showing my prejudices,but like I said before there is no one on the Enterprise command crew that I can empathise/identify with.
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Old October 1 2008, 02:38 PM   #190
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Re: Greater Than The Sum Review *** POTENTIAL SPOILERS ***

I don't understand the idea that it's only possible to identify with a person of one's own gender, ethnicity, nationality, or whatever. We're all human beings. We all have the same basic needs, drives, and emotions; only the nuances differ. I mean, isn't that what Star Trek is all about? Showing that we can all relate to one another no matter what our surface differences?

Heck, the character in GTTS I identify with the most is T'Ryssa Chen, who's neither my sex nor my species.
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Old October 1 2008, 03:10 PM   #191
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Re: Greater Than The Sum Review *** POTENTIAL SPOILERS ***

I don't think I'd make a great starship captain, so I don't think I need to see someone like me onscreen in Star Trek. I need characters who are believable and who have some qualities I can approve of or sympathize with to some extent. That's not limited to middle-aged white guys.

I do remember people on usenet years ago complaining that pandering to the politically correct meant they couldn't watch DS9 or Voyager, because everyone can relate to a white man in charge but only black men can relate to a black man in charge and only women can relate to a woman in charge. It was almost funny to see people so obliviously blind to their own racism and sexism. Well, not all of them were oblivious -- in my experience, most people who blather about the PC police are outing themselves as bigots. (I'm referring to the extreme cases on usenet in the 1990s, not to anyone here.)
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Old October 1 2008, 04:55 PM   #192
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Re: Greater Than The Sum Review *** POTENTIAL SPOILERS ***

Steve Roby wrote: View Post
I do remember people on usenet years ago complaining that pandering to the politically correct meant they couldn't watch DS9 or Voyager, because everyone can relate to a white man in charge but only black men can relate to a black man in charge and only women can relate to a woman in charge. It was almost funny to see people so obliviously blind to their own racism and sexism.
Not to mention the inherent contradiction. If everybody -- including nonwhite people and women -- can relate to a white man, then why can't white men relate to nonwhites or women? Basically what those people were saying is that white men are less mentally flexible than women or nonwhites. And as a Caucasian male, I suppose I should be insulted by that.
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Old October 1 2008, 08:49 PM   #193
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Re: Greater Than The Sum Review *** POTENTIAL SPOILERS ***

i know i am. Sisko's my favourite on-screen Captain and (slightly tangential) Samuel L Jackson is one of my favourite movie actor's and I'm as white as pint of milk.
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Old October 2 2008, 03:11 PM   #194
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Re: Greater Than The Sum Review *** POTENTIAL SPOILERS ***

*sigh*
This has become about race/ethnicity,which was NEVER my point.

I simply feel that the new command crew IMO,repeat IMO,seems crumbly and there is no one there that interests me sufficiently to continue with TNG R.
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Old October 2 2008, 03:41 PM   #195
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Re: Greater Than The Sum Review *** POTENTIAL SPOILERS ***

flandry84 wrote: View Post
*sigh*
This has become about race/ethnicity,which was NEVER my point.
Err, no, it hasn't. Of the four posts between your previous comment and this one, three address both gender and ethnic differences (even species differences), and only one mentions ethnicity but not gender. It is therefore incorrect to say that this "has become about race/ethnicity." It's about people's ability or inability to identify with characters who are in a different demographic category from themselves, and that's entirely relevant to a discussion of the opinion you raised.
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