Spoiler whore's thread! (enter at your own risk)

[flux_29]

does it say anything else?

[Wouter2]

flux_29 wrote:

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does it say anything else?

Not much. There is a scene between Zarek and Adama in the brig (probably Adama put him there because he was spreading unrest in the fleet, after "Earth" was found and turned out to be disappointing). Also, a scene between Adama and Roslin where they "don"t care" (not sure about what, may be about the unrest in the fleet or what people are thinking about them).

From the teaser shown at ComicCon (still not leaked though), it looks like Zarek will mount a coup against the Adamas and Roslin at some point in S4.5

[bigdaddy]

I think the people want Zarek released, and blah blah and Adama doesn't give a damn because he's a terrorist.

However Zarek is the only one who was voted into office, so I would be on his side of the civil war.

[Wouter2]

bigdaddy wrote:

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I think the people want Zarek released, and blah blah and Adama doesn't give a damn because he's a terrorist.

However Zarek is the only one who was voted into office, so I would be on his side of the civil war.

Actually, Baltar was the one voted into office, allthough Zarek does have a point (as Baltar's vice-president, untainted by Cylon collaboration). I would wait to see the specific circumstances though, before taking sides.

[lorelai2112]

Wouter2 wrote:

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Actually, Baltar was the one voted into office, allthough Zarek does have a point (as Baltar's vice-president, untainted by Cylon collaboration). I would wait to see the specific circumstances though, before taking sides.

Zarek also got elected by the survivers of his colony to the Quorum where he served for 9 months before becoming Baltar's VP.

[DanCPA]

Wouter2 wrote:

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Actually, Baltar was the one voted into office...

I assume that the Vice Presidency is elected with the President.

[Peacemaker]

You know the thought just occurred to me that the Final Cylon probably isn't from the Earth we saw in the last episode. Rather it's from "Earth 2." That would explain why the Four heard the music but the Fifth didn't. It would also explain the comments that the reveal will set the direction for the rest of the season. It's the key to finding "Earth2."

[superstring01]

Deathdealer wrote:

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You know the thought just occurred to me that the Final Cylon probably isn't from the Earth we saw in the last episode. Rather it's from "Earth 2." That would explain why the Four heard the music but the Fifth didn't. It would also explain the comments that the reveal will set the direction for the rest of the season. It's the key to finding "Earth2."

I kind of always thought that the "final five" were some sort of reincarnating cylons who could pass their consciousness down from one generation to the next. This would explain how they predate the original seven, but are still possessed with a history young enough to have "always" been human.

~String

[Kaijima]

superstring01 wrote:

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I kind of always thought that the "final five" were some sort of reincarnating cylons who could pass their consciousness down from one generation to the next. This would explain how they predate the original seven, but are still possessed with a history young enough to have "always" been human.

~String

At this point, I think that logically the Final Five all but HAVE to be "memetic" Cylon entities that incarnate in human forms each generation, or when they choose to incarnate. Their physical Cylon abilities could be explained as the human genetic code being modified to optimize the body for Cylon purposes.

Any other explanation I can imagine would require tortured retcon and stretching plausibility into the Deep Crazy.

However, even if they were born naturally in their current forms, in the colonies, their origin could still be Earth or Earth2 - just in their original lives.

I have a further theory though.

On one hand, I dislike the idea of the remaining core human characters being the Final Cylon - Roslin, Adama, Starbuck, Apollo, Baltar. This would run the risk of undercutting the human side of the drama. But... if I had to pick one, I'd pick Starbuck for the following reasons:

1. Starbuck reincarnated in a way that is hinted not to be like a skinjob Cylon.

2. Starbuck had an immediate "connection" with Earth when she saw it. "It was like I never left the place."

3. Only four of the Final Five were known to be in the fleet, unless D'anna was lying to throw people off.

Now, consider carefully: Starbuck was worried about losing her intuitive lock on Earth if the fleet went too far away. While out searching for Earth, she was also stressed at not being able to regain her lock. But she didn't find Earth by regaining her own sense of direction; she found it thanks to running across Leoben, and then out of desperation, lucking across the distress call in her Viper. Her Viper led the fleet to Earth. Not her original, let's assume true, feeling about where Earth was.

Result? The nuked Earth the fleet has found is NOT the world Starbuck was shown during her death and ressurection. She found the real Earth, or Earth2, or final Earth - whatever. She has not yet regained her instinctive lock, and for the momet is too shocked by what is happening to realize that the nuked world she is left standing on does not feel right. Starbuck under this scenario is the Final Cylon, and she's from the true Earth, unlike the Four.

For the moment, I imagine something like:

The Five, as a whole, are a group of Cylon minds that stepped in to safeguard humanity in the colonies, or at least to observe and watch them, not necessarily for sinister purposes. But it was a joint effort between the Cylons of Revelations Earth, and a representative of /Earth/ - Kara Thrace. Perhaps the location of /Earth/-Earth had been lost and Starbuck was a Cylon survivor from it, thus was on Revelations Earth when whatever happened, happened.

Whatever it is, for the moment I am almost certain that the crucial plot point is that Starbuck didn't rely on her instincts to find Earth and the Viper signal has fooled everyone including her, and that her empathic connection to Earth is because she's the Final, and is indeed originally from Earth.

That, and I suspect one of the twists with the nature of the Cylons is that the Final Five, or Mind Cylons, or what have you, may end up being nothing more than developed, evolved humanity having come up with a method to transfer consciousness, etc. So in the end, the Five may be more human than anyone we've seen in the entire show; the real nature of the word "Cylon" might play into this. What the Colonials think of as Cylon is something of a warped and twisted thing.

[Peacemaker]

I may be wrong, but I'm getting the sense that something happened to Starbuck that has made her a hybrid. She's still the same Starbuck, and she didn't begin life as a Cylon, but on the journey to and from Earth (whichever Earth that maybe - one or even both), something (or someone) did something to her so that she's now a human-Cylon hybrid.

Why? Because back in Faith, watch carefully...

When Emily died, Roslin saw here in her dream/vision.
When the Six who attacked Jean died, Natalie was with her.
When the Eight was killed, she turned to Athena, but Athena rejected her, so Anders stepped in and took her place.
When the Hybrid was deactivated and "died," Starbuck was there with it. Indeed, that same hybrid was deactivated and a few episodes later came back online.

Note the pattern:

Emily each one was with a person of like "kind." Emily was with Roslin, a human with the same disease. Natalie, a Six, executed the other Six. If Athena had not rejected Eight, two Eights would have been together, but upon rejection, Anders stepped in, so the Eight was with another Cylon. What's left? Starbuck and the Hybrid. IMO, that's a message...Starbuck has been hybridized. She's not a constructed hybrid. She's not a born hybrid like Hera. She's either had her DNA changed or she died after all and there are other Cylons (like on Earth, eg. "Earth 2") who resurrected her and in so doing replicated her which stands very much in parallel to what happened to the hybrid, it "died" and then "came back." It even came back with a mission, just like Starbuck "died" and "came back" in Maelstrom and 4.01. Perhaps what Starbuck was wondering about herself in 4.01 wasn't so far from the truth after all. Consider also, she returned in a brand new Viper, an exact replica of the one in which she "died." IMO, there are Cylons on Earth 2 and they are capable of replicating humans perfectly, even downloading their consciousnesses into those replicas (which would anticipate the Cylon Project in Caprica by extension...what happened before, eg. on Earth, happened again..on the Colonies) - but not multiple replicas of the same person, rather one replica per person at any given time. Earth is the place, metaphorically speaking, where humanity can achieve eternal life if they so choose, but they have to prove themselves worthy of it - which is why, IMO, the Earth 2 Cylons are interfering so that the humanity and their Cylons have to work together.

Indeed, that sounds precisely like something Dualla (yeah, I know, I still say she's the Final Cylon) said in Season 2...children are separated from their parents. Rifts need to be healed, families need to be brought together. IMO, that's the Final Cylon's mission, but somewhere along the way it may have gotten it's own ideas ahead of the mission, which could be why things have gotten so fouled up or it may have royally screwed up the mission early on. Either way, it's probably been in communication of some sort between Earth 2 and wherever it's located the whole time.

It's probably just one Cylon on a mission, completely separate from the other Four, yet aware of them. It's mission is different than theirs. Instead of learning about humanity, it's mission is to bring humanity and Cylons together.
Maybe it found the Cylons as I said before and thought it would try helping them by helping them evolve to become more like mankind, thinking that if it could make them less like machines, humanity would be more accepting and the Cylons would be more understanding, leading to peace, reunion, and eventually full reunion with the 13th tribe itself. But the Cylons from the Colonies decided to commit patricide instead. So, it blames itself for bringing abt. the destruction of the Colonies, which would explain why the Prime Hybrid in Razor said it was seeking redemption.

IMO, it knows where Earth 2 is, but it's not going to tell anybody until it fulfills some sort of prime directive, namely it can't bring anybody from either group to the final destination until humans and Cylons have resolved their differences, or at least one side has done all it can to make peace but has failed every last possible attempt and the other side won't reconcile, probably because the Cylons on Earth 2, after the holocaust of Earth 1, won't have it any other way. Think about it, their first home was completely destroyed, do you think they'd allow it to happen again? They've learned their lesson, so they aren't about to let humans and Cylons in their current state arrive there and bring their war there. IMO, either neither group is allowed to arrive at Earth2 in conflict with the other, or (B) the side that has tried to reconcile but failed is allowed to arrive and will receive the help of Earth 2 when it does.

[Wouter2]

http://galacticasitrep.blogspot.com/...view-with.html

Very long, interesting interview with Michael Taylor (who wrote "Razor", among others). Some interesting, sometimes spoilery bits.

[Peacemaker]

Did I read that correctly? The old Cylons, eg. "Guardian type" Centurions, will be seen again? Hmmm, I wonder...

1. Another flashback to the first war?
2. The new Centurions, now having free will, pull out some old Centurions, and together the mechanicals turn on the skinjobs?

[Lonemagpie]

Peacemaker wrote:

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I may be wrong, but I'm getting the sense that something happened to Starbuck that has made her a hybrid. She's still the same Starbuck, and she didn't begin life as a Cylon, but on the journey to and from Earth (whichever Earth that maybe - one or even both), something (or someone) did something to her so that she's now a human-Cylon hybrid.

Why? Because back in Faith, watch carefully...

When Emily died, Roslin saw here in her dream/vision.
When the Six who attacked Jean died, Natalie was with her.
When the Eight was killed, she turned to Athena, but Athena rejected her, so Anders stepped in and took her place.
When the Hybrid was deactivated and "died," Starbuck was there with it. Indeed, that same hybrid was deactivated and a few episodes later came back online.

Note the pattern:

Emily each one was with a person of like "kind." Emily was with Roslin, a human with the same disease. Natalie, a Six, executed the other Six. If Athena had not rejected Eight, two Eights would have been together, but upon rejection, Anders stepped in, so the Eight was with another Cylon. What's left? Starbuck and the Hybrid.

Ooh, good one

[Mossura]

Doc Cottle delivered the hybrids and treated Rosalin for cancer, thus controlling her.

[hxclespaulplayer]

Ok, the title for the last ep is "Daybreak" - what might that tell us about the ultimate fate of the fleet and rebel Cylons (sounds to me like all indeed will just happen again)?