What was the point of FC?

davidant32 · September 19 2008, 05:20 AM

I know, it's a favorite, especially with the TNG crew. But really, what are the Borg doing? I thought they were interested in Humanity for its technology, but Earth has worthless technology in the 21st century. It's not like the Borg need to eliminate this great Federation threat, which has been able to only destroy 2 cubes (out of thousands?) at a cost of many Starfleet ships. How about an "all-out invasion" constitute more than a SINGLE cube?? Especially since the Borg have a transwarp conduit right on Earth's doorstep (according to "Endgame"). I seem to recall the Voyager episode "Dauntless" where the alien described "hundreds of cubes" just around his single planet, much less an entire Federation. Do the Borg need a source of drones? I doubt they would pick Earth, considering all the drawbacks listed by the Queen in "Dark Frontier," not to mention that BEFORE WWIII would've been a better choice (600 million more drones). Plus I don't think that they're running short on drones.

The only thing I can think of is that the Borg want a foothold in the Alpha Quadrant. But without Earth, all that delicious (or not? not too effective vs. Borg) Starfleet technology doesn't exist, and so they would begin assimilating species with also not-too-impressive technology in that century (save for the Vulcans). The Borg should just send a few hundred cubes straight to Earth and collect all that great 24th-century tech and be done with it. Stop the clever ploys that don't add up.

DonIago · September 19 2008, 05:27 AM

There is a force more powerful, more fearsome than the Borg...

...the Writers.

Herkimer Jitty · September 19 2008, 05:31 AM

Starflee has shown they have the ability to come up with ingenious tactics and weapons. I imagine the Borg calculated that the Federation may become a threat and launched a minor mission to keep them from ever becoming so by removing the main driving force (Humans).

Timo · September 19 2008, 08:53 AM

Then again, we should remember that the Borg are using time travel to retroactively change history. This carries a clear implication: they can do it again, and again, and again, until they get it right, or destroy themselves so that they can't make another attempt.

Since the Borg still exist at the conclusion of the movie (as established in VOY), we must therefore conclude that the Borg mission in ST:FC was a complete success.

And, really, it looks like one. There we have this deluded hillbilly from Earth who couldn't put together a warp drive even if a 24th century engineer showed him how. But now the Borg lure that engineer, along with his entire staff, to help the hillbilly "rebuild" his piece of junk into a warpship - and lo, the technological miracle that is the Federation is given a kickstart.

It probably didn't happen all at once, during a single loop. What we witness might be the ninety-fourth loop, with LaForge's contribution now limited to making small refinements to Cochrane's design rather than building it from scratch. After this final loop, the iterative process is complete, and the ship that Cochrane designs will be the same that LaForge learned about at school, and hence the ship that LaForge helps Cochrane build.

What would originally have been a cesspool of stagnated cultures, with the low-tech Romulans and Klingons fighting ankle deep in the ashes of the Vulcan civilization, now becomes a unified high-tech Federation, an endless source of quality assimilables for the Collective.

Timo Saloniemi

Ebuntor · September 19 2008, 09:21 AM

Wow, I really like that theory Timo. Makes perfect sense and it gives First Contact a lot more dept.

Using your theory we could also assume the first cube that was send in BoBW was an incentive for the Federation to start developing anti-Borg countermeasures: Defiant class, quantum torpedoes etc.
Taking it even further we could say "Endgame" too was a whole setup to allow Voyager to take back all that future technology although it seems kinda excessive for the Borg since it ended with their entire Unicomplex and transwarp network being destroyed. But heck if the tech is worth it to the Collective, who knows.

davidant32 · September 19 2008, 08:51 PM

Timo wrote:

What would originally have been a cesspool of stagnated cultures, with the low-tech Romulans and Klingons fighting ankle deep in the ashes of the Vulcan civilization, now becomes a unified high-tech Federation, an endless source of quality assimilables for the Collective.

I see... so you liken the Borg to what could be thought of as "galactic farmers," in that they manipulate time to 'seed' various/promising parts of the galaxy in the past, 'cultivate' it with repeated time incursions, and then 'harvest' slowly (in the case of the Federation) or just slaughter altogether. Interesting....

Ronald Held · September 19 2008, 09:02 PM

We have no idea how many times it took for the current timeline to occur. I do not think the Borg at that time to be that inventive/creative.

startrekfiero · September 20 2008, 02:36 AM

..or, maybe the whole point of FC was just to be entertaining..

Brutal Strudel · September 20 2008, 04:45 AM

Teh quean wuz sexi.

About as much thought as Braga and Moore put into the script, apparently--check the Details artticle which tried to sell FC on its sex ap-

, I'm sorry, it's sex

, no, really , its sex appeal

. It's the article that gave us the infamous 50 ft woman quote from Braga. Yeah, that about sums it up. And yet it's still hands-down the best of the TNG films. Go figure.

RobertScorpio · September 20 2008, 05:04 AM

Brutal Strudel wrote:

Teh quean wuz sexi.

And yet it's still hands-down the best of the TNG films. Go figure.

Nope..Just proves to me that GENERATIONS is still the best TNG movie...

Rob

Gagarin · September 20 2008, 05:20 AM

Timo wrote:

Then again, we should remember that the Borg are using time travel to retroactively change history. This carries a clear implication: they can do it again, and again, and again, until they get it right, or destroy themselves so that they can't make another attempt.

Since the Borg still exist at the conclusion of the movie (as established in VOY), we must therefore conclude that the Borg mission in ST:FC was a complete success.

And, really, it looks like one. There we have this deluded hillbilly from Earth who couldn't put together a warp drive even if a 24th century engineer showed him how. But now the Borg lure that engineer, along with his entire staff, to help the hillbilly "rebuild" his piece of junk into a warpship - and lo, the technological miracle that is the Federation is given a kickstart.

It probably didn't happen all at once, during a single loop. What we witness might be the ninety-fourth loop, with LaForge's contribution now limited to making small refinements to Cochrane's design rather than building it from scratch. After this final loop, the iterative process is complete, and the ship that Cochrane designs will be the same that LaForge learned about at school, and hence the ship that LaForge helps Cochrane build.

What would originally have been a cesspool of stagnated cultures, with the low-tech Romulans and Klingons fighting ankle deep in the ashes of the Vulcan civilization, now becomes a unified high-tech Federation, an endless source of quality assimilables for the Collective.

Timo Saloniemi

If only the writers were able to do that kind of mind-screw.

Timo · September 20 2008, 12:37 PM

They did go for the "Borg fake an attack in order to promote the development of technologies" plot in the VOY episode "Child's Play"... Too bad our heroes never saw the wider connection!

Timo Saloniemi

22 Stars · September 25 2008, 07:16 PM

The point of FC was to make a 'Borg' movie. Becuase the Borg were 'kewl'. The movie, as popular as it was is just not THAT good IMO.

If you look at the zero gravity scene by itself, and just imagine what else the writers could have come up with to fill that 15 or 20 minutes. I mean that 'action' scene is just so slow and lame it bothers me each time I try to watch the movie. The pacing just sucks, the effects are passable but not exciting, it just slows the whole movie down.

Brutal Strudel · September 25 2008, 10:42 PM

RobertScorpio wrote:

Brutal Strudel wrote:

Teh quean wuz sexi.

And yet it's still hands-down the best of the TNG films. Go figure.

Nope..Just proves to me that GENERATIONS is still the best TNG movie...

Rob

To you. As far as I'm concerned, that movie's plot was even more arbitrary, made even less sense and was something FC had the good graces not to be, even with all its flaws: skull-crushingly dull.

WalkinMan · October 3 2008, 06:46 AM

On a contrarian note, and not necessarily one I agree with, Seven of Nine states in "Relativity"...

SEVEN: The Borg once travelled back in time to stop Zefram Cochrane from breaking the warp barrier. They succeeded, but that in turn led the Starship Enterprise to intervene. They assisted Cochrane with the flight the Borg was trying to prevent. Causal loop complete.
DUCANE: So, in a way, the Federation owes its existence to the Borg.
SEVEN: You're welcome.

So the actual point of FC was for the Borg to be there in order to cause Zefram Cochrane to finish his warp ship, thereby leading to the creation of the Federation, a unique source of plunderable technologies for the future...maybe only the Queen knew this...maybe subconsciously...

September 19 2008, 05:20 AM	#1
davidant32 Commodore	What was the point of FC? I know, it's a favorite, especially with the TNG crew. But really, what are the Borg doing? I thought they were interested in Humanity for its technology, but Earth has worthless technology in the 21st century. It's not like the Borg need to eliminate this great Federation threat, which has been able to only destroy 2 cubes (out of thousands?) at a cost of many Starfleet ships. How about an "all-out invasion" constitute more than a SINGLE cube?? Especially since the Borg have a transwarp conduit right on Earth's doorstep (according to "Endgame"). I seem to recall the Voyager episode "Dauntless" where the alien described "hundreds of cubes" just around his single planet, much less an entire Federation. Do the Borg need a source of drones? I doubt they would pick Earth, considering all the drawbacks listed by the Queen in "Dark Frontier," not to mention that BEFORE WWIII would've been a better choice (600 million more drones). Plus I don't think that they're running short on drones. The only thing I can think of is that the Borg want a foothold in the Alpha Quadrant. But without Earth, all that delicious (or not? not too effective vs. Borg) Starfleet technology doesn't exist, and so they would begin assimilating species with also not-too-impressive technology in that century (save for the Vulcans). The Borg should just send a few hundred cubes straight to Earth and collect all that great 24th-century tech and be done with it. Stop the clever ploys that don't add up. __________________ Space, time, and thought are not the separate things they appear to be. Last edited by davidant32; September 19 2008 at 08:20 AM.

September 19 2008, 05:27 AM	#2
DonIago Rear Admiral Location: Burlington, VT, USA	Re: What was the point of FC? There is a force more powerful, more fearsome than the Borg... ...the Writers. __________________ --DonIago It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek... "If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"

September 19 2008, 05:31 AM	#3
Herkimer Jitty Rear Admiral Location: Herkimer Jitty	Re: What was the point of FC? Starflee has shown they have the ability to come up with ingenious tactics and weapons. I imagine the Borg calculated that the Federation may become a threat and launched a minor mission to keep them from ever becoming so by removing the main driving force (Humans). __________________ Fans are like space heaters. All we have to offer is hot air.

September 19 2008, 08:53 AM	#4
Timo Admiral	Re: What was the point of FC? Then again, we should remember that the Borg are using time travel to retroactively change history. This carries a clear implication: they can do it again, and again, and again, until they get it right, or destroy themselves so that they can't make another attempt. Since the Borg still exist at the conclusion of the movie (as established in VOY), we must therefore conclude that the Borg mission in ST:FC was a complete success. And, really, it looks like one. There we have this deluded hillbilly from Earth who couldn't put together a warp drive even if a 24th century engineer showed him how. But now the Borg lure that engineer, along with his entire staff, to help the hillbilly "rebuild" his piece of junk into a warpship - and lo, the technological miracle that is the Federation is given a kickstart. It probably didn't happen all at once, during a single loop. What we witness might be the ninety-fourth loop, with LaForge's contribution now limited to making small refinements to Cochrane's design rather than building it from scratch. After this final loop, the iterative process is complete, and the ship that Cochrane designs will be the same that LaForge learned about at school, and hence the ship that LaForge helps Cochrane build. What would originally have been a cesspool of stagnated cultures, with the low-tech Romulans and Klingons fighting ankle deep in the ashes of the Vulcan civilization, now becomes a unified high-tech Federation, an endless source of quality assimilables for the Collective. Timo Saloniemi

September 19 2008, 09:21 AM	#5
Ebuntor Lieutenant Junior Grade	Re: What was the point of FC? Wow, I really like that theory Timo. Makes perfect sense and it gives First Contact a lot more dept. Using your theory we could also assume the first cube that was send in BoBW was an incentive for the Federation to start developing anti-Borg countermeasures: Defiant class, quantum torpedoes etc. Taking it even further we could say "Endgame" too was a whole setup to allow Voyager to take back all that future technology although it seems kinda excessive for the Borg since it ended with their entire Unicomplex and transwarp network being destroyed. But heck if the tech is worth it to the Collective, who knows.

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September 19 2008, 09:02 PM	#7
Ronald Held Rear Admiral Location: On the USS Sovereign	Re: What was the point of FC? We have no idea how many times it took for the current timeline to occur. I do not think the Borg at that time to be that inventive/creative.

September 20 2008, 02:36 AM	#8
startrekfiero Lieutenant Commander Location: Isabela, Puerto Rico	Re: What was the point of FC? ..or, maybe the whole point of FC was just to be entertaining..

September 20 2008, 04:45 AM	#9
Brutal Strudel Rear Admiral Location: Here, frozen between time and place, not even the brightest lights escape...	Re: What was the point of FC? Teh quean wuz sexi. About as much thought as Braga and Moore put into the script, apparently--check the Details artticle which tried to sell FC on its sex ap- , I'm sorry, it's sex , no, really , its sex appeal . It's the article that gave us the infamous 50 ft woman quote from Braga. Yeah, that about sums it up. And yet it's still hands-down the best of the TNG films. Go figure. __________________ Once every lifetime, we're swallowed by the whale.

September 20 2008, 12:37 PM	#12
Timo Admiral	Re: What was the point of FC? They did go for the "Borg fake an attack in order to promote the development of technologies" plot in the VOY episode "Child's Play"... Too bad our heroes never saw the wider connection! Timo Saloniemi

September 25 2008, 07:16 PM	#13
22 Stars Commodore	Re: What was the point of FC? The point of FC was to make a 'Borg' movie. Becuase the Borg were 'kewl'. The movie, as popular as it was is just not THAT good IMO. If you look at the zero gravity scene by itself, and just imagine what else the writers could have come up with to fill that 15 or 20 minutes. I mean that 'action' scene is just so slow and lame it bothers me each time I try to watch the movie. The pacing just sucks, the effects are passable but not exciting, it just slows the whole movie down.