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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old September 8 2008, 04:56 AM   #301
JD
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

Dayton3 wrote: View Post
William Leisner wrote: View Post
Dayton3 wrote: View Post
But shouldn't all this stuff be in another thread somewhere?
No. It really should not.

Where it should be is in your psychiatric file.
No need to be insulting.

Where is that IDIC stuff from Star Trek we keep hearing about?
Hey, I'm all for IDIC, but what you said was just strange.
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Old September 8 2008, 04:58 AM   #302
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

Dayton3 wrote: View Post
Don't be absurd.
You first.

And how are my two statements incompatible?
If you have to ask, you'll never understand.

I don't like working with women.
I'm sure it's mutual.

None of the men in my family liked working with women.

None of the women in my family liked working with women (especially my mother who despised working with women).
Well, there's an obvious selection bias there, because any woman who didn't loathe her sex to begin with would never have chosen to join a family with that mentality.

Although to be fair, I'm often not very fond of men myself. Right now, for instance.


So I do not like being around women aside from my wife, daughter, and sisters.
Then how in the world did you ever meet your wife in the first place? Let alone get her to like you?


Now most people are not like that I'm sure...
In that case, we already have a better future. Because there used to be more people like that.


I like Star Trek. The technology and ship designs I have always found intriguing.
Then you don't like Star Trek, you like certain minor aspects of Star Trek. I like Sarah Palin's smile, but that doesn't make me a Republican.

And I've loved space exploration both in science fiction and in the real world since I can remember.
Exploration only works if you open your mind. Besides, aren't you the one always complaining that there's too much science and exploration and not enough war and killing in the books?

Something my mother was also fascinated by though she thought it was a waste of taxpayer dollars.
The women in your family sound very conflicted.

I hope that explains some of the things I like about Star Trek.
It doesn't explain why you think it should all be like that.

But shouldn't all this stuff be in another thread somewhere?
You started the thread and expressed the opinions that are being challenged.
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Old September 8 2008, 05:05 AM   #303
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

Actually, I started the thread long ago to review your book I had heard so much about.

After the thread had gone on forever and people started talking about sex in Star Trek, I mentioned some of my character preferences.

I didn't start the thread to be psychoanalyzed though if you have any questions in that regard I'm willing to answer them.

Incidentally, about four years ago, I started a thread similiar to this in The Neutral Zone and got a whole load of POSITIVE responses from people (male and female) who shared my opinions regarding working with women.

So though in the minority, I'm certainly not alone.
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Old September 8 2008, 05:07 AM   #304
Dayton3
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

Christopher wrote: View Post
Dayton3 wrote: View Post
Don't be absurd.
You first.

And how are my two statements incompatible?
If you have to ask, you'll never understand.



I'm sure it's mutual.



Well, there's an obvious selection bias there, because any woman who didn't loathe her sex to begin with would never have chosen to join a family with that mentality.

Although to be fair, I'm often not very fond of men myself. Right now, for instance.




Then how in the world did you ever meet your wife in the first place? Let alone get her to like you?




In that case, we already have a better future. Because there used to be more people like that.




Then you don't like Star Trek, you like certain minor aspects of Star Trek. I like Sarah Palin's smile, but that doesn't make me a Republican.



.
Take away the ship and technology of Star Trek and the show becomes barely recognizable.

I wouldn't call those "minor aspects".
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Old September 8 2008, 05:14 AM   #305
Amy Sisson
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

Dayton3 wrote: View Post
So I do not like being around women aside from my wife, daughter, and sisters.
OK, buddy, this is not the same as "I don't like working with women", which is offensive enough it and of itself.

You just said "I do not like being around women." Period. So you're misogynistic.

And I hope that someday, when your daughter comes to you and complains because some asshole told her she's not worth being around because she's female, or because some asshole told her he won't hire her for a job she's qualified for because she's female and he doesn't like working with women, you remember that you're one of the assholes who thinks it's OK to treat her that way.
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Old September 8 2008, 05:17 AM   #306
William Leisner
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

Dayton3 wrote: View Post
Where is that IDIC stuff from Star Trek we keep hearing about?
Mysogyny and anti-intellectualism are not part of IDIC.

Dayton3 wrote: View Post
Take away the ship and technology of Star Trek and the show becomes barely recognizable.
Take away the ship, and you have Deep Space Nine.
Take away the ship and tech, and you have eps like "The City on the Edge of Forever" and "Far Beyond the Stars" -- some of the most popular episodes ever, where the SF trappings are only there to provide the opening into very human character stories.
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Old September 8 2008, 05:17 AM   #307
Christopher
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

Dayton3 wrote: View Post
Incidentally, about four years ago, I started a thread similiar to this in The Neutral Zone and got a whole load of POSITIVE responses from people (male and female) who shared my opinions regarding working with women.

So though in the minority, I'm certainly not alone.
Well, if you post in a forum that's specifically dedicated to discussing "contentious issues," it's naturally going to draw in a disproportionate number of people who want to advocate controversial or intolerant positions. And no online BBS is ever going to be a large or random enough sample to be statistically significant at showing anything.

And the fact that you don't find those people in the boards that are actually about Star Trek is telling. Star Trek is a show that was specifically designed to counter attitudes like that.
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Old September 8 2008, 05:18 AM   #308
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

Y'know, I was gonna reply, but I can't top what Amy said.

So, uh, what Amy said.
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Old September 8 2008, 05:21 AM   #309
Christopher
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

William Leisner wrote: View Post
Dayton3 wrote: View Post
Take away the ship and technology of Star Trek and the show becomes barely recognizable.
Take away the ship, and you have Deep Space Nine.
Take away the ship and tech, and you have eps like "The City on the Edge of Forever" and "Far Beyond the Stars" -- some of the most popular episodes ever, where the SF trappings are only there to provide the opening into very human character stories.
From The Star Trek Guide, the writers' bible to the original series:
Tell your story about people, not about science and gadgetry.
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Old September 8 2008, 05:26 AM   #310
Dayton Ward
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

Dayton3 wrote: View Post
Take away the ship and technology of Star Trek and the show becomes barely recognizable.
Well, except for those pesky characters that keep popping up in every episode.

Damn them.

Damn them all to hell.

As for this:
From The Star Trek Guide, the writers' bible to the original series:
Tell your story about people, not about science and gadgetry.
Yeah, but what did that hack know?
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Old September 8 2008, 05:32 AM   #311
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

Dayton3 wrote: View Post
No need to be insulting.
Oh there's plenty need to be insulting at this point, since you were insulting first, by quite a lot.

Dayton3 wrote: View Post
Where is that IDIC stuff from Star Trek we keep hearing about?
You have a misconception about what diversity and acceptance means. Diversity and tolerance of differences is not tolerance of intolerance. It is not considered diverse to be accepting of, say the KKK. Since they stand in stark contrast to what diversity is trying to promote. So your misogyny (which is what you have described here) is also not apart of that.
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Old September 8 2008, 05:43 AM   #312
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

From the Miram-Webster Dictionary:
Misogyny

Main Entry: mi·sog·y·nyPronunciation: \mə-ˈsä-jə-nē\ Function: noun Etymology: Greek misogynia, from misein to hate + gynē woman — more at queen Date: circa 1656 : a hatred of women




Yep, that's pretty much what Dayton3's described himself as.
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Old September 8 2008, 05:52 AM   #313
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

Dayton3 wrote: View Post
All male organizations tend to function better than ones that mix males and females. Females are a major distraction and a source of tension for males. Males are far, far easier to control and command where not females are present.
Aw jeez.

You know, as a woman, this kind of attitude pisses me off. And it's just as annoying to hear it from an American as to hear it from an extremist who thinks that women should be covered from head to toe because she might "tempt" a weak man. Women end up being the victims of discrimination because of insecure twits who can't interact with them properly or can't control their raging hormones or whatever.

If some men can't control themselves around women, perhaps THEY should not be in the service (or around the women,) instead of denying women the opportunities that the service gives to them.

Also - Sex is is a normal part of life, Dayton3, as is the mixing of the sexes. I will grant that shows like Enterprise approached it the wrong way, going for the immature titillation angle as opposed to showing a mature relationship between a couple.

Star Trek stories are ENRICHED by character development. Battles and fights and ships blowing up might add interest to a story, but it's how people react to things, how they grow and develop or how they learn from mistakes (those they make or those of others,) that makes a story interesting.
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Old September 8 2008, 05:56 AM   #314
Emh
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

Folks, I'm NOT HAPPY with anyone in this thread. Dayton3 may have radical opinions that no one in this thread appears to agree with and that's fine and good, but I don't like some of the responses he has received in this thread. Among others (and I'm sure I've missed some):

Trent Roman wrote: View Post
Dayton3 wrote: View Post
Because I'm the kind of person that looks at EVERYTHING in life and says to myself "I could do that better".
I suggest you start with a mirror.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
Trent Roman wrote: View Post
I just checked Misc., and there doesn't appear to be a 'misogyny as family tradition' thread yet. Run off and start one. (...with all due apologies to the folk is Misc.)

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
William Leisner wrote: View Post
Dayton3 wrote: View Post
But shouldn't all this stuff be in another thread somewhere?
No. It really should not.

Where it should be is in your psychiatric file.
Amy Sisson wrote: View Post
Dayton3 wrote: View Post
So I do not like being around women aside from my wife, daughter, and sisters.
OK, buddy, this is not the same as "I don't like working with women", which is offensive enough it and of itself.

You just said "I do not like being around women." Period. So you're misogynistic.

And I hope that someday, when your daughter comes to you and complains because some asshole told her she's not worth being around because she's female, or because some asshole told her he won't hire her for a job she's qualified for because she's female and he doesn't like working with women, you remember that you're one of the assholes who thinks it's OK to treat her that way.
Christopher wrote: View Post
Daddy Todd wrote: View Post
You guys, lay off Dayton3. He's hetero; says so himself.

I, on the other hand, am gay, and I'm BEGGING you to quit trying to lump him in with us non-hets.
I don't think anyone here sincerely thinks he's gay -- just that it's fun to insinuate that he is because it's bound to irk him.
JD wrote: View Post
Wow, can you say "Superiority Complex"?
Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
Murder, child molestation and rape are the three lowest forms of human behavior. Bigotry is the fourth.
Amy and Christopher, I'm especially not happy with your posts (Amy, I understand you're pissed and why you're pissed, but there's a better way of going about it).

Dayton3, you've also been insulting in this thread, but to a lower degree. You've had one trolling warning in this forum not so long ago, so think before you post.

This thread has gone far, far off topic. Let's get back to reviewing Greater than the Sum. I or Rosalind will warn for anything that's like the above if this persists. I'm closing this thread for now to make sure everyone reads this post. I will reopen it in the morning.
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Old September 8 2008, 10:28 PM   #315
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Re: Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

Upon further deliberation, Rosalind and I have decided to keep the thread closed, but anyone is welcome to start a new thread about Greater than the Sum on a clean slate.
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