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Old August 30 2008, 11:56 PM   #31
Thespeckledkiwi
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Re: Essential Batman

You know, Mr. Freeze isn't that popular of a comic book character it seems.
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Old August 31 2008, 12:14 AM   #32
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Re: Essential Batman

That's because the only time they made him interesting was when Bruce Timm & Paul Dini were in on it. Even when they retconned their version into comic continuity it still only felt like a pale imitation.
Actually, I know that "Heart of Ice" is the fan favourite freeze episode (and for some, episode, period) but I really think the most interesting Freeze story was the Batman Beyond one. "Meltdown" I think it was called. If for nothing else than his crazy suit at the end.

Has anyone brought up DKR or DKSB yet? I know they can be a divisive set of books, but they are honestly among a very small number of comics that I can read more than once in a blue moon.
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Old August 31 2008, 01:14 AM   #33
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Re: Essential Batman

" A Death In The Family" is, imo, essential. The death of Robin shaped Batman as we know him today.
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Old August 31 2008, 03:56 PM   #34
Yassim
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Re: Essential Batman

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
MikeGainer wrote: View Post
http://comics.ign.com/articles/624/624619p1.html

The 25 Greatest Batman Graphic Novels

That list is kinda screwy. It lists Dark Victory in the top ten, and that book was utter crap, though I'd agree with the list's top four. And the list includes Son of the Demon. Don't even get me started on what a travesty of character rape that story is. Yeah, Batman's gonna work with Ra's al Ghul while Ra's henchmen are gunning down enemies right in front of him. Blech.
I didn't fully read the caveat/rationale at the beginning, but they did seem to state that quality wasn't the only qualifying trait they were looking for - impact and fan reaction also figured in. So I can see how Hush, Dark Victory, Death in the Family (blech*3) et al got in there.

No Dark Knight Re-Returns, though. Yay!

I read the first issue of Venom ages ago, and remember really enjoying it. Since it's a Batman story without major consequences or known villains, I'd guess from its place on that list that it's actually very good. Is it?
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Old August 31 2008, 05:03 PM   #35
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Re: Essential Batman

Yassim wrote: View Post
Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
MikeGainer wrote: View Post
http://comics.ign.com/articles/624/624619p1.html

The 25 Greatest Batman Graphic Novels

That list is kinda screwy. It lists Dark Victory in the top ten, and that book was utter crap, though I'd agree with the list's top four. And the list includes Son of the Demon. Don't even get me started on what a travesty of character rape that story is. Yeah, Batman's gonna work with Ra's al Ghul while Ra's henchmen are gunning down enemies right in front of him. Blech.
I didn't fully read the caveat/rationale at the beginning, but they did seem to state that quality wasn't the only qualifying trait they were looking for - impact and fan reaction also figured in. So I can see how Hush, Dark Victory, Death in the Family (blech*3) et al got in there.
Yeah, I didn't read it either - just flipped through the list.

And for all that the death of Jason Todd was very important in comics continuity for quite awhile - that has a whole lot more to do with DKR (which is where the whole idea originated) than Death in the Family, which is truly one of the worst things I've ever read. And now they've brought him back, a concept I cannot even begin to deal with.

No Dark Knight Re-Returns, though. Yay!
DKSA= unreadable.

DKR is already on my list though. It's a great story - probably Miller's best work because unlike Year One it has a strong ending.

I read the first issue of Venom ages ago, and remember really enjoying it. Since it's a Batman story without major consequences or known villains, I'd guess from its place on that list that it's actually very good. Is it?
Never read it myself. Something about the idea of Batman taking drugs just doesn't ring true to the character for me, but if anyone has a review that says it's really good, I'd be interested to hear it.
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Old August 31 2008, 07:11 PM   #36
Yassim
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Re: Essential Batman

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
Never read it myself. Something about the idea of Batman taking drugs just doesn't ring true to the character for me, but if anyone has a review that says it's really good, I'd be interested to hear it.
Let me set it up...


Whether you read that or not, I'd say that "Batman takes drugs" is a gross simplification, and the first issue goes to lengths to spell out the conflict.

But again, I should wait to hear from someone who read more than one issue...
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Last edited by Yassim; August 31 2008 at 07:39 PM.
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Old September 1 2008, 02:54 AM   #37
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Re: Essential Batman

Bad Bishop wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Bad Bishop wrote: View Post
"Why Batman Is Better Than Superman"
It's good to know that we have accredited scholars hard at work on supporting banal fanboy opinions.
That article may surprise you. It's really about the argumentative strategies used by Batman fans when they debate the issue with Superman fans. The writer introduces the concept of value theory on the second page, and evaluative comparisons and descriptive comparisons on the third page. The author forces us to think about what makes superheroes great, and concludes that Batman is "better" in one area (courage). All fanboys should abandon their errors in reasoning after reading this essay!
That actually sounds like an interesting book.
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Old September 1 2008, 05:53 PM   #38
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Re: Essential Batman

Yassim wrote: View Post

Let me set it up...


Whether you read that or not, I'd say that "Batman takes drugs" is a gross simplification, and the first issue goes to lengths to spell out the conflict.

But again, I should wait to hear from someone who read more than one issue...
I didn't doubt that the story would justify his decision through some such incident - but the scene you describe after he first takes the pills is exactly what I'm talking about. It all sounds like a way to do a variation on "what if Batman was out of control?" I've never read one of those that was particularly good.
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Old September 1 2008, 07:10 PM   #39
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Re: Essential Batman

Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
Thanks for that heads up, I haven't run across those before. Are they well written?
I'd say they are. Certainly the Scarecrow issue stands out - it was written by Doug Moench during his run on Batman. Moench is truly an excellent character writer. (Have you read Moench's run? It may have been the greatest extended run on the Batman comics ever...check this site to learn why: http://popcultureshock.com/features.php?id=1183 )

I meant to add - beware the "Scarecrow" and "Ra's Al Ghul" "Year One" one-shots that were released at the time of Batman Begins (actually, two-shots - each were two-part issues). They weren't annuals or part of any extended comic line, and weren't actually "Year One" stories - they were just released to capitalize on the villains being featured in the movie, had "Year One" added to the title in order to capitalize on Year One popularity, and feature pretty awful writing (Batman fighting zombies, etc.).


I've been looking at The Man Who Laughs, but I haven't read it yet. There's kind of mixed opinions about it out on the web. I'm not trying to give anyone a comprehensive continuity on Batman - there are other sites that do that. I'm just trying to list the material that has really strong storytelling and character-based writing.
I think the largest objections to "The Man Who Laughs" seems to be the fact that people don't like Joker origins after "The Killing Joke." I could be wrong, though.
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Old September 1 2008, 07:13 PM   #40
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Re: Essential Batman

N-121973 wrote: View Post
Try the recent Joker storyline from Batman Chronicles 7-12. DC have already released it I believe in hardcover.
That's "Lovers and Madmen." The art is pretty bad, and the story is so-so. A very different take on the Joker's origin. I prefer "The Man Who Laughs," but you might want to at least check this out. Be prepared for dissapointment, however.

Then there's also Batman Year 2, a four part story in Detective Comics that was released straight after Batman Year 1.
I thought Year 2 was terrible. Just a bad story all around. It's also been retconned out of existence. Thankfully.
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Old September 2 2008, 01:05 AM   #41
Lapis Exilis
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Re: Essential Batman

Haytil wrote: View Post
Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
Thanks for that heads up, I haven't run across those before. Are they well written?
I'd say they are. Certainly the Scarecrow issue stands out - it was written by Doug Moench during his run on Batman. Moench is truly an excellent character writer. (Have you read Moench's run? It may have been the greatest extended run on the Batman comics ever...check this site to learn why: http://popcultureshock.com/features.php?id=1183 )
Okay - I'll bite. I read some Moench back in the day but I don't really remember. Based on the article I just ordered 540-552.

I meant to add - beware the "Scarecrow" and "Ra's Al Ghul" "Year One" one-shots that were released at the time of Batman Begins (actually, two-shots - each were two-part issues). They weren't annuals or part of any extended comic line, and weren't actually "Year One" stories - they were just released to capitalize on the villains being featured in the movie, had "Year One" added to the title in order to capitalize on Year One popularity, and feature pretty awful writing (Batman fighting zombies, etc.).
Yeah, movie tie-ins are usually pretty wretched.


I've been looking at The Man Who Laughs, but I haven't read it yet. There's kind of mixed opinions about it out on the web. I'm not trying to give anyone a comprehensive continuity on Batman - there are other sites that do that. I'm just trying to list the material that has really strong storytelling and character-based writing.
I think the largest objections to "The Man Who Laughs" seems to be the fact that people don't like Joker origins after "The Killing Joke." I could be wrong, though.
There's certainly plenty of debate about whether the Joker is more or less effective with an origin attached to him.
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Old September 7 2008, 04:55 PM   #42
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Re: Essential Batman

Batman the Cult is listed there in the Top 25. I read it and it's not so bad, very DKRish and Deacon Blackfire is a bit Ras Al ghulish. But i like the story for the way Batman deals with been Broken mentally.
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