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Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

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Old September 4 2008, 05:58 AM   #16
cynical dreamer
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Re: Ripping the supernatural out of science fiction.

Hirogen Alpha wrote: View Post
cynical dreamer wrote: View Post
Though now that you mention it I would put Apollo 13 and the first 2 "Alien" movies into the category of movies without supernatural elements.
If you'll count Apollo 13, then From The Earth To The Moon (the HBO miniseries) should count.
I haven't seen it yet so I can't say. I'll put it on my list of things to track down.
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Old September 4 2008, 05:59 AM   #17
Harvey
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Re: Ripping the supernatural out of science fiction.

cynical dreamer wrote: View Post
Hirogen Alpha wrote: View Post
cynical dreamer wrote: View Post
Though now that you mention it I would put Apollo 13 and the first 2 "Alien" movies into the category of movies without supernatural elements.
If you'll count Apollo 13, then From The Earth To The Moon (the HBO miniseries) should count.
I haven't seen it yet so I can't see. I'll put it on my list of things to track down.
It's not really science fiction. Maybe historical fiction with science as a genre? Very much in the vein of Apollo 13 (even with a returning actor or two).

cynical dreamer wrote: View Post
Farscape had Zhaan, a Delvian priest who displayed many mystical abilities. It also had people switching bodies, etc... (I love Farscape dearly but there's a lot of supernatural elements to be found).
Wow. I should have thought of Zhaan immediatly. She's the face of Farscape. It HAS been a while.

As for the particular case of DS9. Having Dukat become "posessed" for lack of a better term is one element I would consider supernatural. And the whole concept of Sisko being 'the chosen one' seems to fit with the notion of precognition (on the part of the wormhole aliens) which would also make it fit as supernatural in my eyes.
That certainly takes on the appearance of the supernatural, but it's all been explained with pseudoscience. i.e. the Prophets aren't providing precognition, they just exist on a non-linear plane. Yes, it's millions of lightyears more advanced than us, but it's not presented as supernatural.
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Old September 4 2008, 06:03 AM   #18
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Re: Ripping the supernatural out of science fiction.

"Terminator" definitely didn't have psychics or ghosts or any such stuff that could be labeled as "supernatural". It was time travelin' man vs time travelin' killer robot from beyond tomorrowwwwwww!
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Old September 4 2008, 06:05 AM   #19
cynical dreamer
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Re: Ripping the supernatural out of science fiction.

Brikar99 wrote: View Post
"Terminator" definitely didn't have psychics or ghosts or any such stuff that could be labeled as "supernatural". It was time travelin' man vs time travelin' killer robot from beyond tomorrowwwwwww!
Haha, when you put it like that it makes me want to break out the dvd again.
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Old September 4 2008, 06:07 AM   #20
cynical dreamer
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Re: Ripping the supernatural out of science fiction.

Hirogen Alpha wrote: View Post
That certainly takes on the appearance of the supernatural, but it's all been explained with pseudoscience. i.e. the Prophets aren't providing precognition, they just exist on a non-linear plane. Yes, it's millions of lightyears more advanced than us, but it's not presented as supernatural.
Yeah it's definately a grey area. The writers and producers really shoe-horned in Roddenberry's take on religion into the concept of the prophets. That's a tough one that I don't really have a good answer for. Anybody else have any feelings on this one?
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Old September 4 2008, 06:09 AM   #21
Harvey
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Re: Ripping the supernatural out of science fiction.

I haven't seen it, but I suppose that qualifies Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, since it is a TV series after all?

What about Babylon 5? Well, I could make that argument up until The Lost Tales, anyway. The Vorlon (or other First Ones) advanced tech seem to be the root of anything perceived to be supernatural on that series. Of course, the "demon" in The Lost Tales doesn't fit that explanation. It's nearly presented as a demon. Yes, there are pseudo scientific explanations that can be made about it (and have been on these boards), but that's not really found in the text of the episode.
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Old September 4 2008, 06:14 AM   #22
cynical dreamer
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Re: Ripping the supernatural out of science fiction.

Hirogen Alpha wrote: View Post
I haven't seen it, but I suppose that qualifies Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, since it is a TV series after all?

What about Babylon 5? Well, I could make that argument up until The Lost Tales, anyway. The Vorlon (or other First Ones) advanced tech seem to be the root of anything perceived to be supernatural on that series. Of course, the "demon" in The Lost Tales doesn't fit that explanation. It's nearly presented as a demon. Yes, there are pseudo scientific explanations that can be made about it (and have been on these boards), but that's not really found in the text of the episode.
Haven't seen either series so I'm not qualified to comment. B5 was always a series I meant to get around to but just haven't for whatever reason. One of these days...

It's been a while since I've seen Space Above & Beyond. Has anyone checked it out recently (either in reruns somewhere or on dvd) that could comment on it's supernatural content, or lack thereof?
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Old September 4 2008, 06:16 AM   #23
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Re: Ripping the supernatural out of science fiction.

I've never seen Space: Above and Beyond. I've been meaning to, but after Morgan and Wong's mismanagement of Millennium in that series' second season, and the fact that it ends on a relative cliffhanger, I've never gotten around to it.

Maybe when it's marked down from $20.00 to $10.00.

Anyhow, off to bed for me.
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Old September 4 2008, 06:49 AM   #24
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Ripping the supernatural out of science fiction.

As far as we know, Lost has no supernatural elements.

And if you assume the Prophets are really just wormhole aliens, DS9 is totally within the realm of science as well.

I haven't seen it, but I suppose that qualifies Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, since it is a TV series after all?
That definitely counts.
Farscape had Zhaan, a Delvian priest who displayed many mystical abilities. It also had people switching bodies, etc... (I love Farscape dearly but there's a lot of supernatural elements to be found).
Zhaan's abilities could have been natural for her species. Switching bodies isn't inherently supernatural.

"Supernatural" is different from "silly pseudo-science" - the latter abounds in TV sf.
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Old September 4 2008, 06:54 AM   #25
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Re: Ripping the supernatural out of science fiction.

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
As far as we know, Lost has no supernatural elements.

And if you assume the Prophets are really just wormhole aliens, DS9 is totally within the realm of science as well.

Farscape had Zhaan, a Delvian priest who displayed many mystical abilities. It also had people switching bodies, etc... (I love Farscape dearly but there's a lot of supernatural elements to be found).
Zhaan's abilities could have been natural for her species. Switching bodies isn't inherently supernatural.
Again I point to the example of Dukat's "posession" for DS9.

As for Farscape. If you can show me one example from nature of a living creature switching bodies with another creature I'd be willing to accept this one. But I'm fairly certain such an example will never be found.

Your point about Zhaan is well taken. It's been a while since I've run through the show but I'm sure there are some other examples. Such as her being able to commune with the deceased Aeryn and bring her back to life. Inherent in the species or not, it doesn't fit with the laws of the natural world.
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Old September 4 2008, 07:04 AM   #26
Hennessy Badger
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Re: Ripping the supernatural out of science fiction.

^ Plus, wasn't there a villain from farscape who was an evil wizard? He was in two episodes of the series, I think. And he was actually referred to as a wizard. Not "an alien with wizard like powers" but a wizard-wizard.

Definitely supernatural.
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Old September 4 2008, 07:08 AM   #27
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Re: Ripping the supernatural out of science fiction.

Hennessy Badger wrote: View Post
^ Plus, wasn't there a villain from farscape who was an evil wizard? He was in two episodes of the series, I think. And he was actually referred to as a wizard. Not "an alien with wizard like powers" but a wizard-wizard.

Definitely supernatural.
I think his name was Maldis if I remember correctly. And yes... very supernatural!

Also, back to DS9. Jadzia's ability to transfer the memories of her previous hosts to members of the DS9 crew in that one episode was definately supernatural in nature.

This also leads me to another thought. Are supernatural abilities/powers used as a storytelling crutch when the well of ideas has run dry?

It's ironic that as i type this there is a banner ad on the right of the screen saying "click here to download your personal horoscope". One often forgets just how pervasive the supernatural/pseudoscientific is in our culture.
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Old September 4 2008, 07:33 AM   #28
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Re: Ripping the supernatural out of science fiction.

how about Dark Angel? S1 especially.
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Old September 4 2008, 07:39 AM   #29
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Re: Ripping the supernatural out of science fiction.

Hardin wrote: View Post
how about Dark Angel? S1 especially.
Another series I haven't seen. Reading the wiki entry on it tells me that while it may or may not have supernatural elements it would appear to have a heavy pseudoscience bent to it. Though that is going strictly by the wiki entry.

Anyone else who's seen the series have any insights on this one?
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Old September 4 2008, 08:07 AM   #30
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Re: Ripping the supernatural out of science fiction.

well, season 1 really didn't have any supernatural elements.

It's maybe a bit trickier with season 2 (which I sometimes like to consider as a different series altogether), but the physical prowess of the familiars is explained as a product of selective breeding through the ages. Still well in the realm of science (or pseudo-science), I would think. S2 also has a brainy guy who's able to predict the future, but it's supposed to be statistical analysys and probabilities calculations. It's been a while since I've seen S2 but I don't recall straight-forward supernatural elements.

As for pseudo-science: yes, most of it, obviously.
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